Ok so im setting my EF up for Pacifc raceways road course. At the momment I have a B18a1 in the car but I sure as hell dont wanna race with that. So basically heres the question what do you guys recommend for engine setup. The track has alot of elavation changes in it and the corners tend to be kinda fast pace. I was thinking either GSR or a B16a. The other option was to do a LS/vtec in the car and use the B18a1 bottem but from what I read it dosent handle well under stress and the engine alrdy has 150k on it.
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There is the car

 

Im local to you (Lacey).

Are you wanting to participate in the lapping days at Pacific? Have you completed the course and are signed off to solo yet?

By first glance at the car, I think you have some better things to spend your money and attention on before worrying about more power. I started out with a single cam and it was fine until I gained experience.

Your B18A assuming its in decent mechanical condition will be plenty enough to get started.

 

Nah i am not cleared for solo yet. The B18 aint in bad condition but dosent seem like it would really have the power for the track. Should i jus throw the money into the suspension then

 

It has the power you just have to learn to drive it at its limits.
Get some good tires and go learn with it, as well as the coveted seat time.
If it implodes you arent out anything...
track time is key!

 

Your current engine will be fine, with no experience youre not going to win anything even with a GSR or LS-V swap.

Besides, Lapping Days at Pacific are not competitions. They are designed to be a way for you to get seat time in your car and gain experience driving on a race track.

The Proformance course is mandatory before you can drive on the track and is $500 + it is likely you will have to come back for the afternoon session which is another $200 or so.

As long as your car is safe to drive at higher than normal speeds (meaning brakes are in good condition, suspension is tight, etc.) then you should invest in improving your driving skills before improving your car.

There is a wealth of information here and elsewhere and how to get started and what things you should focus on.

Have you ever driven on any track? Ever completed a PDX or any type of driving instruction? Autocross? What experience do you have?

 

This is not true. Look into going with a local car club. I know the alfa club has you do a track day at Bremerton with them, but you do not have to be a member and then they will allow you to join them at Pacific.

 

Damn, I should hope not. $700 to get on a track.
Driver's Edge is pretty big here and they are 295 for green/blue and 275 for solo people. That is for the weekend, not 1 day.

 

dont put a different engine in.

LSs love running forever, as long as you dont over spin them..

i think you'd be surprised how much you learn without having crazy power. you'd have a LOT of fun. you'll probably have more fun, and progress much quicker than if you'd started with bunches of HPs.

 

I'd recommend getting rid of the LS and dumping a LS1 in there. that way, you can push the barriers further away from the track when you slide off cause you had too much power

but, all kidding aside... tracking a car with NO power is FAR FAR FAR FAR more fun than tracking a car with TOO MUCH power.
I track a F430 Scuderia occasionally and, it's an absolute blast, but the 145hp B20 Civic sedan I track is much more "fun".

Also, this is only about fun, not competitive edge. Have fun, learn to drive... then worry about being competitive.

 

+1 for driving education, if those open track days sound too expensive for learning driving techniques there's always autocross, much cheaper at only $50ish entry fees at most and not as much wear and tear on your car. The courses are also set up for testing your car control.

 

Umm im expiernece is pretty limited but I do agree i would like to get some seat time. So i guess now the question is should I change up my Springs and **** cause my current suspension is complete ****

 

By that do you mean worse than stock? or really old stock parts? You obviously don't want to drive hard on anything that's unsafe, but although stock parts will not compete with a race prepared car they are still something to learn on. At this point just having us pick a setup for your car wouldn't really help, there are lots of ways to drive a course and setups to compliment them. Seat time will allow you to look at what your weak areas are.

 

The suspension is old as **** not the type of **** u would wanna race on

 

Not the **** you want to race on yet you have no experience???
Soooooooooooooo go bone stock even if its ****.
Only when you can drive the car bone stock effectively should you consider upgrading anything.
Tires... track go go go!
Remember your not racing, your learning!

 

You're looking at the WRONG places to spend money to do a track day. Shocks/Springs/Tires/Brakes (or just pads)

Oh yea, and you're gonna need to put the hood back on!

First of all. Stop saying Sh**

From the looks of it, there's no cage so you ain't doing any "racing" anyway. If you're at a lapping day and *appear* to be doing any racing you're going get sent home real fast... ask me how I know.

Some common advice......

Don't do an engine swap
Don't do anything silly to try and make "more power" (it's just a lapping day and when it's over you still need to drive it home!)
Don't put in any crazy barz or any ricer nonsense... none of that matters on the track, only at Hot Import Nights.
Don't drive like an idiot on the track. You ARE THE STUDENT, not the master, remember that. Listen to your instructor, he's smarter than you....that's why he's your instructor.
Don't change your belts. The OEM seatbelt will be just fine. If you change your belts, add a roll cage while you're in there.



DO: Make sure your engine oil is changed and I recommend Synthetic just because track use will get it very hot.
DO: Make sure your transmission oil is fresh
DO: Leave your timing stock, don't advance it to make more power. YOU ARE NOT COMPETING!
DO: Suspension check. Make sure all ball joints and bearings are good and no bushings are torn.
DO: Show up with brake pads that have plenty of meat on them.
DO: Listen to your senses... all of them, not just eyes and ears. Scent helps too especially when coolant is burning, oil is burning or brakes are melting.


Not necessary, but not a bad idea: Decent shocks/springs and not too low, it's still a street car and if it's too low it negatively affects how it works on a track. Also, consider good brake pads that can handle street and track use unless you plan on swapping pads at the track. I used to show up, pop in my track pads then at the end of the day pop my stock pads back in and go home. Cobalt, Carbotech, Hawk... all make good dual purpose and track only pads.

Oh yea.. last but not least.

Tires.

You'll need those!

 

want a good cheap place for seat time... indoor karting.

 

Not really, it depends on where you go. Do a track day at PR for $200-250 and get 3-5 hours of track time. At our decent go-kart places you get 10 minute sessions for $12 at our really good places you get 10 minutes for $14 (with membership!).

Do the math.

Track day (on the side of less time and most money)
3 hours for $240 = $1.33/minute
4 hours for $240 = $1.00/minute

Karting: (on the side of least $$ per 10 minute session)

3 hours = 18 sessions x $14/session = $252 + Membership fee (either annual or monthly) = $1.4/minute

Not to make this a karting vs. lapping debate but karting will save you money as you don't have to pay for the wear items like pads, fuel, oil, wear and tear etc.

I just checked that Proformance charges $245 for a day without instructor but I'm not going back to do my math over again, you get the point.

There's the Porsche club, Alfa Club, IRDC and other various clubs that do lapping days either for less money or include a 2 day school.

If your goal is to learn quickly and hone your skills find a way to mount (safely) a camcorder in your car and record your sessions then when you're at home you can compare your braking points, lines and apexes to other video from other drivers (plenty on vimeo and youtube). Also, pay the extra money for an instructor and talk to him about what you want to work on and ask him what he thinks you should work on. You might think you need to work on braking but he might think your biggest problem is apex and corner exit.

Video and Instructors will go a LONG way to skill and fun!

 

lol the car does have the hood on agian that pic was taken right after I bought it. The motor is the same and I gutted the car out and am starting caging here pretty quik. When I say I have limited expierence I ment with road racing. I have been doing 1/4's but wanted to learn how to use the parts for what they are ment for. Also have alittle bit of background experience with drifing then I got into honda's more or less im jus looking for some parts advice. The reason I say the shocks arnt what u want to race on is they are extremely old only set I had when I bought the car it was on Cut springs I dont trust the springs to hold up aginst the stress tracking would put on em.

 

and now you know what I said indoor karting.

other benefits:
- learning momentum and the line quickly, since laps are generally under 60 seconds
- learning how to pass off the line
- generally easier to access (assuming one is closer)
- car prep isn't needed
- it's a far greater workout than driving production based vehicles

And how do you guys get three to five HOURS of actual seat time? Does the track just let people run whenever they want? How long does it stay open?

Most of the track events I've run have a minimum of 3 groups (Beginner, intermediate, and advanced)... and they start running at 8a and go to 5p, with an hour lunch break for the course workers. That's 8 hours... at 20 min sessions, that's 2.5hrs roughly, assuming everything goes according to plan (no offs, no clean-ups, 1st car is on time).

If you guys truly get three to five hours of actual driving time, I need to get to PR soon.

 

hmm.. I had to dig that up. I guess I am a bit disappointed then. Drivers Edge has 4 groups, and over 2 days you get 8 sessions. so 2h40m.
I am assuming they use the standard 20min sessions. They don't really have a whole lot of details on their site. The 4 groups seems like overkill, but I can't find how they break them down.

 

Yes you do.

It all depends on the club. Some do 30 minute session in which you're allowed to go on an come off as you please during your session and you can get up to 6 sessions in a day. Other clubs do 20 minutes... blah blah blah. But back when I used to do lapping days at PR I got so much seat time I actually left early because I've burnt off 25+ gallons and I was tired... dead tired. I also got tired of filling fuel.

I've lapped with: Proformance, IRDC, BMW club, and one other but I don't remember the name... something like Ultimate laps or something. The last one was expensive ($320 I think) but that the most time I've ever spent on track. Basically there were 2 groups and the advance drivers were allowed in both groups and were allowed on/off all day long... or something to that effect.


Karting is very different but definitely more accessible and a great place to learn, and so is autocrossing and so is reading Speed Secrets. I have noticed that Go-Karting gives me very very bad habits on road courses in big cars. It's a completely different way of going fast and getting the vehicle to be fast. You might learn some basics and some race craft but you definitely have to be conscious of the fact that those same kart-control skills don't apply on the big track in the big car. I'm still trying to break the habits I learned while autocrossing.

A great recommendation for building the neural pathways in your brain is build a car in Forza 3 very similar to what you have, remove the assists and get as good as you can with it. You'd be surprised how well that carries over.

I played lots of forza and GT before I starting lapping or racing and I noticed that when my car got sideways or when I set a couple tires off the track how instant/automatic and correct my corrections were. I did everything right automatically and after talking with some other racing instructors we discovered that I was able to do that because I had already established those habits and neural pathways in the virtual world so the skill was already embedded.


For the OP:

Unfortunately we can't embed Vimeo because Vimeo is WAY better than youtube but here's an ITA race of mine at PR from May. And for anyone who hasn't seen Pacific Raceways, it's a hell of a track with lots of elevation change!

http://www.vimeo.com/11455219

 

I do like that track, but the strips are a bit steep.
That CRX was getting on my nerves just watching, nice wave.