so i bought a 94 gsr head with no intake manifold no dist and no valve cover for 250 good deal for me.. but heres the question.

The head is complete with all the parts but not assembled. The head is basically bare. Obviously I cannot reuse the valve springs since they all were in one bag. I cannot reuse the rocker arms since they were also thrown in a bag.

But can I reuse the valves?, they look good to me? The intake and exuast ports look strange(definitely not stock). looks like somone did a half assed wanna-be Portflow porting.

The intake side is all smooth but some are rigid spots, same thing goes for the exhaust side. The bottom of the head appeared to be milled/machined but i dont know to what spec. Now, is it worth to put this head together? Here are some pics.

to that "port thing" that i mentioned earlier will that affect the flow of the head since its polised. and like i said it looked stange to me take a look at some pics to see what im talking about.

Heres one of the ports im not sure which side this is.

i beleive this is teh exhuast side.

And another

Here is the bottom side of the head(note: looks resurfaced/milled)

Closer look of one of the combustion chambers

heres a close up crisp picof one of the intake valves.

anyone out there canr help me? i know for a fact taht i cannot reuse my valve springs.

 

Damn!! First things first......go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a dremel and some diamond bits and some steel polishing bits, clean up the other persons poor attempt at porting, but be careful, take your time, make every move deliberate and precise and you will be OK, just don;t try to port it yourself, just clean up their work and leave it like that.

As far as the valves, you should be able to reuse them if they are not damaged, but while the head isnt on a motor, this is the best time to invest in valves, considering they are cheap to have installed now and cheap to buy. its just a good investment.

 

Ouch, that port job hurts


Mine


i beleive this is teh exhuast side.


And another


Mine


Here is the bottom side of the head(note: looks resurfaced/milled)



Mine

 

wow is your port job stock or you got it done? i think ill bring mine to portflow so they can fix it

 

Ouch that real sad
Like I've said in another thread I have a problem with sharp edges in the intake port dividers
Ever see an airplane wing that is sharp in the front ?
Looks real nice but nice dosen't make power
Not dissing any shop just stating some proven facts
Peace gentlemen

 

it probably wasnt a shop just some dumbass that didnt know what he wasy doing .. should i bring it to a local machine/head shop hope they can fix it.

 

hey canuck-mx6 do you think there is anything wrong with the btoom side of my head?

 

you would have to do a check to see if it is flat. You can also measure it to see if it has been milled, I can't tell from the picture

 

true. so who did your ports are they stock ?

 

Your argument does not make sense. An airplane wing has a curve to take advantage of the Bernoulli effect. The curve causes the air that flows over the top to speed up creating low pressure above the wing, and creating a high pressure area below the wing. That high pressure area causes lift.

Since you want the air going into each port to flow eaqually as fast, you need a sharp edge. A good analogy would be knife edging a crank, so that it flows though the oil better (not on Hondas, only domestics).

BTW, my head was ported and polished by JUN Japan, and I would think that they have lots more experience than a smally shop in anytown USA.

 

i spoke to tom fujita he looked at this link from an email i sent him and i talked to him on the phone, and he said its fine to run it but he told me that it will definitely loos hp. but what the hell i got the head for 250 bucks right?

 

Canuck-mx6 sorry if you missed what I was trying to point out
When I said the wing is round or radiuused in the front and not sharp I was trying to point out the other reason for a wing being round in the front is for aerodynamics Air flows around the wing.Maybe I used a bad example
How about asking you this :Whats the most aerodynamic thing in the world?
A raindrop is and how is that shaped? Round in the front and pointed in the back as it falls .
Take a look at a jet or a bullit they look pointy but have a radius front.
As for the knife edging goes think boats and try to remember the splash they make when cuting the water (V hull boat) and then look at a ski boat with a round body which makes no wake


There are some other pro porters that think that on stockcar motors the drivers side head should flow more than the passenger side (cause they turn left all the time and air goes more to the passenger side)
I've flowed and worked on heads that came off of Gordons car and Jarretts car and both heads flowed the same.
I've worked on alot of racing programs and have gotten exellent results so I can compare myself with the best of them.
All my findings are track tested

Sorry for the long post

 

You cannot take the port divider in isolation. You have to consider the entire port, as well as the fact that you are trying to split the air. I understand the concept of the raindrop (streamlined). It is the shape that moves most efficiently through the air without causing turbulent flow, but the air flows around it, not through it like a port.

In such an arangement, the air in the center flows quicker as the boundary layer encounters "surface friction". Using a shape like an a raindrop would not give you the desired laminar flow.

 

So the air flows through the divider not around it is that what your saying.
Sounds like you got the theories down pact but theories don't make power
If you have access to a flowbench you should try out your theories and see for yourself and then try it out on your car then maybe you could backup your theories as facts
Not flaming you just speaking facts canuck mx-6 .
Please don't think I'm getting mad , just discussing

 

I like discussions, I do not mind at all. All I am saying is that air flowing through a port is totally different than air flowing around an object. You have to consider the entire port rather than just consider the divider.

I do not consider myself to be an expert in head porting but I have taken several university courses in Fluid Mechanics (Fluid Mechanics 1 and 2, as well as Hydraulics and hydrology as part of my Civil Engineering degree). I do have access to a flow bench, and my head flowed approximately 13% better after the porting and polishing process, so it is not just theory. Here is the flowbench that we tested it on



This is the bench in the same shop (Canadian Cylinderhead technologies) that built Tony the Tiger's B20 when he decided to upgrade from his 220 whp 1.8 GSR.


[Modified by canuck-mx6, 4:21 AM 9/18/2002]

 

ok so whats up lol should i sell this gsr head and get a b16 head? arghgh thisis making me go crazy

 

Keep your GSR head. Even though it's not pretty as long they have fucked with the valve seat/bowl transition you're cool. It will still out perform a B16 head in my opinion.


[Modified by Rocket, 7:18 AM 9/18/2002]

 

Cool homemade bench
We use the industries standard a Superflo SF 600.
As for your head you said it flows 13 % better Is that 13 % every lift or hi lift or average? Did you test the tubulance and velocity ? Test another head without sharp edges on the divider and see and hear the difference,and if that not enough do a back to back test on a dyno and then you will see where I come from
I know that sharp is better for cosmetics but not for power

By the way wheres the torque

 

Hahaha, you crack me up. So one flow bench is better than another now, I guess that the next thing that you will tell me is that your watch is better than mine because you wear Seiko and I wear Citizen

The flowbench is made by company in Austrlia, and one bench is not better than another, they are both tools that allow you to measure the delta in the flow rate.

Industry standard does not mean anything, it is always the specialty products that outperform industry standard. Hytech and SMSP headers are not industry standard, but they certainly outperform "industry standard"
Not sharp edges, just one edge where the two sides of the divider taper to an edge (like a knife edge). I cannot remember what we tested on my head, it was last year, but I do remember the 13% number, and if that is average flow increase, that is a significant increase.

That said, everyone can boast on the net about their porting skills, why not post some pics of examples of your work, with the flow measurements. Convince me with empirical data!
You know that Hondas have none



[Modified by canuck-mx6, 1:35 PM 9/18/2002]

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of any skills
The only ones I need to make happy is the customers I have
14 NHRA Records are earned not bought!
I'm just stating some points that I've found cause dremel sales have gone up and everone seems to be a head porter
Just trying to protect people from getting ripped off
I know a flow bench is a flow bench but when you work with hi end customers and they use SF 600 then you need the same tool to get simular figures,so we can workout things.
By the way the Olympics use Seiko and not Citizen (little joke)
AS for posting pics I'm not computer friendly but you can go to my site and look at some pics and maybe you could post some for me thanks dude for your replies

Just teasing for the torque part


[Modified by tk, 2:37 PM 9/18/2002]


[Modified by tk, 2:41 PM 9/18/2002]

 

damn you guys are stil debating.. anyone wanna buy a gsr head hahaha

 

Not debating we are discussing

 

tk

So what angles and widths do you like for the valve seats. And do you like a narrower throat section relative the the valve seat.

Thanks for your relpy. I am trying to get more performance out of the B20's because they have a hard time breathing.


[Modified by Rocket, 7:46 PM 9/18/2002]

 

Also to add to that (since there are actually Honda head porters in here) how much should I port my b16a1 head? I'm getting ready to port my head in one of my engines class and my instructor(and all other students) is biased towards import cars and know nothing about them. For naturally-aspirated how would I go about porting my intake and exhaust side? 3-angle or 5-angle valve grind? Thanks. Any tips will help.

 

hey ill trade you my gsr head