OK here is the run down. 90 crx hf 150k miles, the engine is missing causing raw gas to shoot out the tail pipe makeing me fail emmissions. I am at 5,000 miles sence my last oil change and I am less than half a quart low so there is no burning oil issue. My CEL is not comming on and the ECU is not throughing any codes

Upgrades:

sparkplugs, wires, mass airflow sensor, O2 sensor, fuel filter, airfilter, replaced all vac lines and the pcv valve. I even pulled the Dizzy out of my other crx that runs fine, put a new cap and rotor on it and put it in the HF just to elimate that from the equasion. I have also ran a bottle of fuel systems cleaner in the last 3 tanks of gas (didnt help)

My hf was getting like 28 mpg before I did the above, now im getting about 40 mpg but my emmisions are still bad.

All 4 spark plugs look exactly the same and I mean exactly. They are all ash white where the spark jumps, and are all sooty at the base of the plug that is exposed in the cylinder. So It's running Lean/hot in all cylinders and at the same time all 4 cylinders are randomaly missfireing cause the soot.

The car idles a little errattic, and if I only push the gas down like 1/4 -1/3 of the way at low rps It will often choke and spudder some times backfiring and in first the car will really surge/jerk. I think the engine is to gutless to make the car jerk around in higher gears, but in all gears at low rpm the above will happen. When this is happening if I just push the gas to the floor 95% of the time the car with accelerate and run fine. On occasion when this is happining when I floor it the bogging gets worse and I even stalled it a few times.

When the car sits over night and then I jump in it to start it, it always has to crank for a good 4-5 seconds some times 5-10 seconds before it will start. Once it is warm it fires right up every time.


I tried to be as thuro as I can for you guys, I appriciate any and all suggestions.

 

yank the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator while its running.

if gas comes out the nipple, get a new regulator

My best guess

Good job with the description, we need more peeps like you here when questions are asked

 

maybe something with one of the injectors.
as for the emissions part, retard your timing as much as possible...just temporary.

 

i had kinda the same problem on my si.. but what worked for me was i ****ed with the throttle body and turned it down some so it doesnt rev so high. if you dont have a throttle body then it could be your ecu. i also heard that ur ecu can run the engine cleaner than others. turning the throttle body down also helped my errattic idling.

 

how the hell can you "turn" your throttlebody?

and retarding the timing?

stop talking. retarding the timing will NOT help at all

 

there is a screw on the end of your throttle body.. you can turn it to the left or the right.. if you turn it to the left it goes out.. if you turn it to the right it goes in.. turn it to the left until ur engine calms down. Have you no idea what im talking about? if not keep your mouth shut cuz i didnt say turn ur throttle body i said turn it down... moron read plz

 

That would be the idle screw my man.

Saying turning your throttle sounds way different lol
moron?!?!? MY FEELINGS ARE HURTZ!!! <cuts wrist>

 

I have been playing with the dizzy. spark is supposed to fire 16 degrees before TDS. Unless I have it backwards I think you mean advance the timing. Advancing it makes the spark fire 17-20 (I don’t have a timing light so I don’t know how far you can advance it, maybe 21,22 degrees ) degrees before TDC make ignition happen earlier cause the explosion to last longer, be stronger, get you better gas mileage, more horsepower and burn cleaner (also causing engine failure if your not careful). Retarding it does the opposite It fires the spark closer to TDC giving the opposite affect of everything I just said.

My best plan right now is to advance the timing as much as a can and put in 93 octane see It can pass emmissions.

I will mess with the throttle body, and the fuel pressure regulator tomorrow afternoon and report back.

 

ITs definitely not an injector if all teh spark plugs look teh same.

Its narrowed down to fueling, and I think the fuel regulator is your only source at this point.

a throttlebody with a mis adjusted idle screw restricts or adds AIR, not fuel.

a bad MAP sensor would not allow teh car to perform hardly at all, BTW


FPR's are not too common, but they do go bad from time to time.

a new one from ebay or a partsstore is cheap. Dont bother with an adjustable aftermarket one if you find you do need a new one.


Another option is to get a gasket for it, and swap in one from a buddy's known good honda or acura, they are all teh same 88-2000

the economy models have slightly higher pressure due to them using smaller injectors

 

Well trying to answer multipule things at once so here goes.

I don't beleive its the injectors because all cilinders are misfireing and running hot. Though possible I don't think every injector is exactly clogged the same amount.

I have pulled the vacume line off the fuel pressure regulator (while the engine was on) and no gas came out.

I will pull the fuel pressure regulator off of my 88 rex si tomorrow and put it on the HF, see what happens. Now will the Si one work the same even though you say it has lower pressure than the HF??

I am also going to pull the ECU out of the Si and put it the HF. pretty much my last 2 options. Only other thing I can think of is if the mechanical timing is off. And I don't know how to check that, never did a timing belt.

The Si and the HF ECU's are compatable right??

Thanks for all the help and Ideas so far guys, I have 5 days left before my emission sticker expires.

 

SI ecu will cause it to run richer, but if it fixes your misfiring, you know a new HF ecu is in order.


Did you check the main relay yet? outside of fuel reg, maybe a case of bad soldering joints on the relay are causing irratic fuel pump activity, causing the fuel pressure to flucuate.

find where its at to the left of the steering wheel, and inspect the circuit bopard of it to determine if damage exists.

if you have a soldering gun you can re flow the joints just to be safe


Mechanical timing, just loosen the distributor mounting bolts, and rotate towards the firewall a LITTLE bit.

if this corrects the problem, tighten it down.

DO THIS IN LITTLE STEPS ONLY. I like loosening just enough where a tap with a rubber mallet will rotate it, or a strong hand grip.

EDIT retard, rotate front, advance, rotate firewall.

so reatard it in tiny amounts.

retarding means it ignites mix AFTER top dead center.

I had it backwards,a dn jsut confirmed the rotation.

IT is possible ignition is advacned, therefore potentially causing detonation(pinging, misfiring) and not burning enough gas (richness smell)

Retarding it ONLY EFFECTS POWER
advancing RISKS DAMAGE UNDER UNCONTROLLED SETUPS

so rotate that bitch.

retarding reduces higher rpm power since the delay of ignition signal to actually igniting is larger the higehr the rrpm.
/EDIT

 

 

1: I have not physically checked it but it is making it's "clicking" noises but I will as soon as I have a chance, hopfully tomorrow.


2: by mechanical timing I mean the cam gears. That maby some one instaled the timing belt one tooth off or maby its old and has stretched, causing the mechanical timing to be off I have only had the HF for one year.


3:4: Correct me if I am wrong here this is how I think things work:

With a warm engine at 750rpms the dizzy is supposed to be set a 16 degrees' BTDC (Before Top Dead Center). Advancing the timing (rotating dizzy tword the firewall) makes the plugs ignite at more than 16 degrees' BTDC (spark jumps earlier). This causes higher compression and a longer time for the fuel to burn reducing emmissions.

Retarding the dizzy (twords the front bumper) will make the plugs spark at less than 16 degrees' BTDC(spark jumps later). This causes lower compression less time for the fuel to burn increasing emmisions.

Advance the timing to much and the combustion will happen too early causing to much compression and while the piston is still moving to TDC the explosion forces pushing down on the piston, and against the head gasket and head will be too strong and snap connecting rods, blow gaskets, etc.

Retard the timing to much and the piston is moving down before the explosion starts resulting in lower hp, lower compression, poor emisions due to incomplete burn.

 

correct, 16

correct, advancing menas spark ignites earlier, its better for higher rpm power. ignition system has a delay from signal to coil ignition to plug ignition, only gets worse with higher rpms

correct, retarding makes it wait longer, safer, lower high rpm power

does NOT effect compression

emissions is affected, but both actually effect emissions negatively, though retarding is better then advancing

 

ok you say that retarding is safer, why? you, lost on that one?

you say a change in timing negitivly effects emissions either way I don't understand how that makes sence?

I disagree about compressions. Bear with me just a sec and read, and correct me if I am wrong. When there is an explosion in a cylinder it presses out in all directions including against the pistion which puts power to the wheels right? When you have an explosion building up increasing amounts of pressure by the millionth of a second and you have a piston squeezing that pressure into an even smaller area the compression (or psi) is increased untill TDC is reached. This is why the spark goes off a hair before the piston reaches TDC because it compresses the exploding gasses giving more power, and more cleanly burnt fuel air mixture which is why a stock crx the spark goes off 16 degrees before TDC not at TDC.

Advancing the timeing more than 16 means it causes more exploding gasses to be compressed therefore increasing the total compression.

Note: none of the above increses the CR (compression ratio) it increases the total compression which equals the compression ratio and the compression of the expanding gasses.

this is why 99% of cars that come stock with a turbo have low compression pistons. The forced induction causes increased total compression. This is also why stock NA cars are usually never recomended to go above 5-7 psi with a turbo setup.

 

When you advance your timeing your motor runs faster ( it's like running @ a higher rpm). When you retard the timing your motor runs slower. It's just common sence to me. Try for yourself.

Do you Know if your timing belt is correct? Set to TDC?

 

compression is physical

I think you are confusing it with pressures from combustion

advancing it ignites, it tries to force the piston down even as its coming up, and the perfect amount of advancement will have it continue to be expanding/creating pressure after TDC

Retarding is safer since it waits until after TDC to ignite

This prevents combustion from trying to force the piston down before TDC like advancing does

It really depends on combustion chamber design for what works. a tight quench likes advanced configuration


PSI ahs nothing to do with NA

I put 16psi from a K03 turbo onto a d16a6 for a buddy's daily driver

runs great, OBD1 conversion, chipped ecu, its awesome

 

your motor doesnt run faster

advancing/retarding simply changes your powerband LOCATION

and in some cases, advancing CAN cause detonation, which kills motors

 

yes, i get what you are saying, it does'nt make the motor faster, but you can hear the motor like its spinning faster.

 

no

it simply sounds smoother at a different rpm

 

Well there is things I know and things I don't and things I am not sure about. What I do know is that I put in my Si ECU into my retarted HF (by retarted i mean stupid) . It is running better for sure, it no longer backfires and does not bog out as bad. I think that it's because of the higher fuel curves and the fact that my HF is running lean shown by all 4 casper white plugs.

One intresting note, my HF ECU would toss the CEL light every once in a blue moon for like 5 miles and then go back off. The Si ECU has pinned the CEL nonstop and is giving me a single repeating led blink ( my HF ecu did this once but would not repeat it after I reset it.)

So now that 2 different ECU's have given me code 1 which has to do with oxygen content I can guess nothing else but that something is making the mixture too lean and it does not have to do with the fuel delivery system. Where do I go from here?? according to my haynes manuel there is a **** load of things to check. Anyone know any common things to look for I would be greatfull for the help.

 

what O2 sensor did you use?

please dont say bosch

 

^^aint nothing wrong with bosch o2 sensors...let me guess another oem part nutswinger in the making

 

nope

another "kill all bosche" swinger in the making