Another one of my real stupid questions.

We are constantly seeing guys breaking the **** out of big money gears and cases and it seems like a constant battle. $6000 on a gearset, $1000 on a diff, $1500 on a case and they still break. I can't afford to buy one and have it break!

Why doesn't the racing community throw up the white flag and push for development of a real transmission that can be adapted to multiple platforms. Don't say because rules don't allow it. Rules will have to follow the racers.

Remember this??????


http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-50.asp

 

someone should step and and determine what needs exist, then figure out the cheapest way to produce a product to meet these needs. We don't need diamond-studded billet casings that are cut from a solid block of platinum, no. We need a design that is cheap to make that works. I think that's where a lot of the import industry has problems. We have so much "nice" stuff that is really expensive doing a job that some really cheap (yet cleverly designed) products can do.

I have to ask myself why I would ever think about spending all this money on a transmission for my Honda, when I can throw something a lot cheaper in my Mustang and go to town.

 

Remember Hot Rod? And Pro-All Motor? ya I'm sure you remember them years ago. Those classes all died out. There's a few guys still racing in the Pro classes but for every pro car thats out there, theres 300 street car builds out there, possibly more.

Once transmissions like that are allowed in "Street" classes, even if its Outlaw, your gonna get the same results as you did as what happened with Hot Rod.

My opinion is limit the classes more so there isnt so much breaking. The solution is never to change rules to allow more things. It should be to restrict it more to prevent cars from going out of control in budget and speed. With "street" cars are getting into the 8s, and wanting to go faster, dont accomodate a whole class by allowing a few cars to go faster. Those cars should be jumping up in class anyways.

 

I wish someone could help me put a ecotech GM trans and mate it to a b-series that would be amazing! And cheap if it can be done. Has anyone ever thought about this? Remember the redbull cobalt? It was an auto.

 

why is the ecotech trans better than the standard bseries trans?

 

from what ive heard its all hydrolic no clutchs,bands,gears,etc..... if im wrong someone correct me,i dont like spreading wrong info!!!

 

automatic! but it hink it was called the hydromatic

 

Remember there is an Xtrac trans and bellhousing for the B series, that 'fixed' all the problems. Money talks.

That G Force thing is retarded, someone forgot it had to go in a car when it was designed. There is no room for an inner CV joint, the suspension has to be built around the ride height being right for the axle and you can pretty much have no suspension travel. They can round the splines on the shaft and buy maybe an inch of travel max by the end of the axle.. Brainfart. Design a transaxle around CV joints next time.

 

Everyone I know has an $8000 transmission in their street car, and a lot of guys have backups. Street class racers are spending that money now knowing they WILL BREAK, why not spend $8,000 on a transmission that will be the last one you ever buy? Not only that...damn it would be nice to have one that you can swap ratios between rounds. Ask me how fun it is to take a trans out, put new ratios in, then back in the car in an hour. Suck.

If everyone gets one, the rules will change. Racers dictate the rules.

 

Maybe its the "Street" class that needs to be re classified. Maybe there should be MORE limiting factors of tire size, front ends, interiors and perhaps a full exhaust. Cmon now, you cant really drive a car on the streets with no headlights or exhaust coming through the bumper... or the hood for that matter, lol.

But we are still in need a solid solution for transmissons, that is affordable. The honda market has been in dire need of such an idea and I think this is where it'll get started if anything.

 

Yes but GForce had the right idea and looking ahead. A version of that tranny that works is what we all need.

The Xtrac at $18,000 + housing is excessive. They saw it as low volume (which they are right) and they priced it accordingly. It was also designed when Hot Rod cars were using stock transmissions. Now that the market has evolved and people are spending stupid money on band aids, maybe it is time to revisit? Something can me made for half of the Xtrac.

You know Leslie A. told me this was a problem years ago, and I argued in favor of keeping it simple and stock transmission based in the pro stock class. Now I see what she was talking about. If there was a trans I could spend 10 grand on and know it would live...man that would be outstanding. But spending that kind of money knowing it is a problem and knowing you have to spend another billion dollars trying different ratios is stupid.

 

There's no such thing as the "last" part you'll ever buy. Tell Fortin to lifetime warranty service and parts on a 25K transmission. Like everyone is saying. Its Racing, stuff will break, things will need to get serviced, etc.

Even an Xtrac or Gforce isnt the solution to this whole transmission debate. Suck it up, stuff breaks, stop crying and just buy the parts. Go slower if you dont want to break parts.

 

I have a perfect solution. Don't race :p It works!

Someone told me years ago to spend the money on a Tilton and it would be the last clutch I ever buy. This was before all the popular twins were out. I bought a Tilton in 2004 and have had it in 2 different cars. So far, they were right Two weeks ago on ESPN2 they were talking to Tim Wilkerson about how he had replaced one of his driveline components in the Funny Car. He had over 300 passes on it and he decided it was time to change. Things don't have to be engineered half ***. If they can make a little part handle 8000hp for that long, can we make something that can handle 1000 for more than 15 passes LOL?

 

i agree w/ Wil

the street classes should be limited to keep them from getting out of control.

i remember when pro allmotor was running the et's which we are now seeing in street allmotor.

the pro classes will never thrive when the rules allow racers to keep going faster in the street classes

 

I agree on the Tilton Luke, thats why I have Carbon clutches on both my turbo car and all motor car. I was going to mention Tilton haha but thats a different story.

But back to topic. If there was a $12K gearbox/billet casing that is class legal and was pretty much difficult to break(I guarantee that there will be people buying it. I'm not saying it will be 100% bulletproof, but if it did better than whats out there, everyone knows it will sell. But in the meantime, whats out there isnt perfect so its a matter of just dealing with what we have.


I'm proud to see Tony, Chris, Damian, Felix, Pepsi, Jerry, Tim, Loan and all these other racers pushing the limits. Feels great to be part of this industry and group of people. But its overwhelming to think how fast things progress and how the rest of the scene works hard to catch up but never does. There has to be a point where certain things just shouldnt be allowed.

 

Why does it have to be $12,000? It could be equal to what guys are paying now for gearsets, case, and diff. I promise that.

Ok...with bell housing, probably 10-12

 

I just threw out that number as an example of a possible higher end product than whats already out there. Maybe different materials used, more custom internal work to make it different than a regular gear set, etc.

 

I don't think you can promise something like that for $10-12k.

Xtrac was not expensive because it was low volume, all of their stuff is expensive because of the engineering that goes into them. Their stuff is top notch and that costs money. I don't think you can get someone to build a box from scratch, bellhousing and all, that is as unbreakable as the Xtrac (like Wil said, nothing is unbreakable) and costs $10k. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

Wil@ exospeed, you make great products. When is that top fuel ring gear and slipper clutch setup coming out for our cars? Lol

 

yeah, top fuel cars run a rear end that costs $20,000 and It breaks, ive seen them break and these guys have nearly unlimited R&D Resources of companies trying to make **** last lol...Even pro stock guys will damage gears from time to time in their $250,000 cars. People that are breaking a liberty gear or a ppg gear after 3-10 passes are either doing something wrong or having bad luck plain and simple, the complaints are far outweighed by the success of these gear sets.

That gforce thing is a joke for sure, looks like a fan you sit on top of your engine to cool it off.

 

My question is, what are the variables? why are some people having good vs. bad luck ? Why is it that some people making similar HP #'s having issues and others are not? What is the difference.

 

[\quote]That gforce thing is a joke for sure, looks like a fan you sit on top of your engine to cool it off.[/quote]


LOL I thought it was a water box for a A/W intercooler at first

 

Now that's a billion dollar question if I've ever heard it.

And you guys saying top end cars etc break parts well don't a bunch of them have warranties? My buddies 8 second Cuda has a blow the diff get a new one free deal, when he was making 900s on motor his part's source said the diff is good for at least 1400-1500tq. He bolted on a 300 shot shattered it and the guy replaced the diff perfectly fine.

It just seems domestic stand behind their warranties and their crowd doesn't take the same **** we do, it's racing it breaks. They tend to lean along the line of I paid XXX for this part it better work when it's rated for my power level. (I'm not saying all but alot of them think that way and of course there are others that have no budgets)

 

HP
Car weight
Driving style
Clutch
Tire size
spool/diff
Final drive
case Stock/billet
flow control valve
Clearances in trans
Trans fluid
strain gauge
cuff
Actual shifter rod/cable/aftermarket

These are just a few, that is why every failure on any aftermarket trans has to be taken with a grain of salt

 

**** is expensive, and thats that. this world is a business. everything that exists isn't to benefit you primarily, its to benefit another person. thats called business, its how this industry and how the world works. about constructing such limits... why? the point of this thing is to go the fastest and have the best (thats what makes it fun). if you're content with a low budget build then be content with a 12 sec pass. who doesn't want to have it all? so if someone has the dough to throw at a 12k tranny, then thats awesome for them because they'll have a badass trans til it breaks, IF it breaks. normal people dont have that money, so deal with it, normal people shouldn't build a 1000whp car if they can't afford it; be realistic.

yes, it'd be great to have a trans for 12k that will last foreverrrr, but its not realistic. it'll cost millions to design it, test it, redesign it, throw the first idea away, new design, few more tests, then maybe we'll get it at a nice penny.

until then, be glad we have decent setups for 10k that can usually take a few hits and move you a quarter mile in 8 seconds. just be happy for that. otherwise, go snag an EG hatch off craigslist for 2k and we'll see ya at the other end in double the time.