Aye everyone.....

I am still working on what I like to call my "cool" air intake.. Its a short ram with a custom designed heat shield (done by myself)...
Please do not suggest a Cold Air Intake as it is not an option for me, far too many floods and thunder storms where my car is located...

To get cool air to the intake, I devised two plans:

1. I was considering placing a Blox Velocity Stack (total outside diameter 6", inner diameter 3") somewhere at the front of the car to receive cold air while im driving, which will then be routed to my custom (open top) airbox just next to the filter.
http://www.vexmotorsports.com/Blox-C...ack_p_342.html
I was thinking about the lower grille at the front, but is there space for the 6" veloctiy stack and 3" tubing to run from it? I haven't figured out the tubing routing as yet but I was hoping to get some advice on this as well.

2. That will cover air while moving... For air while standing still, after removing the stock intake resonator etc, I have the hole leading to the inner fender (just below the AEM cone filter). I plan on widening this hole to 120mm and installing a high powered PC 12v fan (about 160 CFM rating) to move air from the inner fender into the airbox area while idling/ in traffic.. What this will hopefully do is reduce heat soak, and the velocity stack will keep the air flowing when I need it most..

What do you all think of this and please give me ideas on placement and possible improvements

 

Well you can either remove the high beam in your passenger headlight for a more direct route or cut a hole below the turn signal and mount the velocity stack there

Either one accomplishes both goals you're wanting to. The car will suck up as much air as necessary while idling.

 

Thanks for the reply muffinman...

This is a relatively old picture of the car (before I changed the headlights) but it should give you a good idea of my setup



I was thinking about the area just next to the turn signal, that lower grille... Think there is space to operate there? I would go and measure myself but im in the USA right now until end of June (at which time I plan to take whatever parts I need with me)..

Thanks

 

Yeah, the foglight goes in that area. You would have to end up routing a tube going from there behind the turn signal and then up where the resonator is.

You definitely don't have the space to do it near the radiator and high beam, and the headlight blocks all the other paths. That's why I recommended just cutting out below the signal, it'd save you a lot of space.

Alternatively you could just create a fiberglass duct that scoops air from the front and directs it to behind the turn signal.

 

Thanks again for the advice... It looks like either the "foglight" or "under turn signal" option will be the best ones for me as a fibreglass construction isn't really too faesible..

I have to ask this though.. Do you think that the velocity stack is necessary to get good airflow into my tubing or would just flaring out and rolling the end of the tube (like a rough version of a velocity stack) be enough for this idea/application?

Also, where would be the smartest place to run the 12v for my fan idea? I am still trying to decide what depth of fan to go with, 25mm or 38mm... I will have it all figured out soon enough I hope

Thanks again

 

I don't even think a fan is necessary. If you're not having heating problems I wouldn't even worry about it - you'd almost be in the "electric supercharger" category putting a fan there

And I personally never understood the whole velocity stack idea - I can't imagine just having the pipe routing air would make a noticeable difference. And with your fiberglassing skills I'm sure a thin sheet of sheet metal would do the same. For the S2000's lots of guys run these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CARBO...Q5fAccessories

You can see how it would be similar. Instead of going up and over the radiator however you would go over to the left to route the air towards the cold air intake

 

Your ideas are interesting but I'm struggling to see how the intake you are making is THAT different from a aftermarket CAI as far as driveability.

You are still looking to suck up air from down low in the car, just like a an AEM CAI (or any others), and yours will even be drawing air out the front!

Your idea to use the airbox is good, but if the floods and storms and bad enough that a an aftermarket CAI isn't possible, then how will this be a more viable option?

Please, if I'm missing something let me know. Just trying to help you out.

Oh, and I agree that the fan is very unnecessary. That fan doesn't flow nearly enough air to provide any benefit.

 

Interestingly, that looks like a larger version of the stock intake on my sisters Nissan Cefiro..

Well the thought on the fan is that I tend to get heat soak issues when standing still... I was hoping the fan (in conjunction with the heat shield im working on) would just keep airflow coming into the engine bay from the fender wall, ie. keeping hot engine air away from the filter...
The fan in question will be pushing at least 120 cubic feet per minute which is a pretty significant amount of airflow considering that its only purpose is to move air up from the fender wall, thereby creating a positive upward pressure and hopefully keeping out the majority of hot engine bay air..

The reason that this is different to a CAI is that when using a CAI the filter is located low down in the fender wall... In this case my filter is still safely in the engine bay, away from the possibility of hydrolock. Regardless of if I run tubes from low in the car for additional cooling, only air will be transported up these and not water.
I know too many people in Trinidad who ended up with hydrolocked engines as a result of CAI's.. even with bypasses installed





I sincerely appreciate all the help.. I'll let you know how it all works out..

 

Like TheMuffinMan said, your fan idea is similar to an electric supercharger (or it could argued that it IS one). You are trying to feed more air to the engine in an effort to boost its performance. The problem is that if the fan isn't moving enough air, it won't do anything but drain a battery. And in the case that it is providing enough air (boost), fans like this will drain a battery quick and only provide limited performance.

To make any gains, a supercharger/turbo needs to move more cfms than the engine itself can. This also implies that the supercharger/turbo is part of the intake assembly in order to send this air directly into the motor. Your idea seems to place the fan within the intake, which is good, but it moves 160 cfm (at optimal operating capacity, which it won't always be at, especially with your setup you have described). This is short of what your engine probably moves by itself. I haven't done the calculations but even if it did move more it wouldn't be enough to justify the expense. See what I mean?

Btw I understand what you mean about the filter. For some reason I saw you were using your airbox but thought you had a filter running lower a bit behind the velocity stack. My mistake.

 

You may want to experiment with a snorkel that takes the place of the turn signal and directs air upwards through the resonator hole. I bet that would look bad ***. Build it out of cardboard to test the design then make it in fiberglass.

Or do the same and cut out an opening directly below the turn signal (similar shape) to how the S2000 one is

 

That may actually be a great suggestion muffin.. Will take some work but might be well worth it. I'm not removing any of my lights simply out of necessity to pass inspections etc, but any other areas im more than willing to chop (besides the hood for a scoop... not a chance of that)...
I definitely plan on widening the resonator hole anyway regardless of all the other things i thought of.. Bigger hole = more air which can only be a good thing.. But definitely need to consider that cardboard snorkel fabrication...


To Bwill, I understand what you mean about the electric supercharger but my intention of using the fan isn't to get more air into the engine.. Its actually to move air from a cooler location toward the intake filter while at idle.. The reason I am looking for a high flow rate is to move a significant amount of air to keep that hot engine bay air out of there.. The fan is only intended to serve its purpose at idle where I normally heat soak quite badly (as well as going up hills slowly)..

Otherwise, the snorkel or velocity stack will provide the cooler air I desire while moving and going up the rev range...

I will be back with my car in about a month so I was trying to plan all the supplies I need to take it back with me..

 

Recent bay shot, Filter sits right behind the high beam.


Next is better inlet shaping and some sort of custom box or deflector to get that air forced into the filter. As for the question about velocity stacks being necessary, here's a diagram about inlet loss for pipe entrances of different designs.


Just having your pipe there is effective, but with good curvature (not necessarily velocity stack (hyperbolic?) curve or whatever it is) you can get better fluid motion.

Mine is on the car now, don't have any pictures though... This weekend is the Richmond meet so I'll have some soon. I jumped from 30mpg to 35mpg after I installed this and heat wrapped my downpipe so make your own conclusions about that.

 

Crap, I completely forgot the meet was this weekend!

 

you're still coming though right?

in other, related news. Another guy did something similar but took out his bumper light. I think you can get creative and seal off the rest of the lense so it's still functional/legal. The problem will be keeping the signal in the bumper since it mounts on the outside.
http://hondasociety.com/board/showthread.php?p=1903607

 

Great info Andy.. It looks like velocity stacks or at least some sort of tube entrance flaring and modification makes a SIGNIFICANT difference..

Ideally removing the high beam would work fine, but I have to keep every light in place.. which keeps pushing me back to the "foglight" position if its workable..
Looks like this will take quite a bit of troubleshooting to get done, but I hope I can find some sort of viable final solution.

I think I will still go ahead with the fan idea just for the sake of curiousity.. A sort of before and after test should be in order..
It wont be particularly scientific owing to lack of equipment, but I will definitely come up with some way of testing...

 

If you move your battery to the trunk, that will open up a good bit of space in the area you are working in as well

 

My main point from all that was this. I really don't think it's worth it, but go ahead and give it a shot. Hell, prove me wrong, I don't care. It's your car after all.

Fair enough. It will look more interesting at the very least.


Btw, that headlight is lookin good Andryzzle! I'm in for pics of it finished for sure!

 

I would love to do a battery relocation but don't think its worth the trouble in this case...

Considering the fan idea, it will probably run me about $15 for the fan (depending which I choose) and just to run one wire to install it shouldn't be too bad either.. I'll let my electrician handle it when he is doing some other work for me..
I think its worth it just from the view of experimentation. For all I know I could start the next big thing here (very very very unlikely haha)...

--
I picked up a blox velocity stack 6" total diameter, 3" inlet for $25 last night (after discount + free shipping) which I don't think too bad. The tubing shouldn't cost too much either and i'll source that locally.

What material would you consider the best for the custom heat shield? Aluminium is an option but I would consider that pretty radiant..
What about the hard non-flex cardboard? If I use that would spraying it with high heat (aka BBQ) spray help? If so, which side should I spray.. Assuming this spray reflects heat, logic tells me I would want it on the outer surface of the heat shield?

 

Get something waterproof. Not sure exactly what this cardboard stuff is, but think about wet cardboard in your engine bay... nasty. Some sort of plastic would probably be fine, but there's an ongoing debate about heat coating charge pipes/intake pipes in your engine bay.

Basically, the main point against wrapping (besides exhaust pipes) is that air is moving through the pipe's volume so quickly, that minimal heat transfer takes place. This may not be as applicable to you since you are more worried about heat soak (assuming while you are sitting in traffic and not moving enough to be getting fresh air into your bay.)

Anyway, my point is in my opinion it's better to just make sure the air you suck up isn't hot by blocking that air out than trying to keep the sucked up air cool while it's in your intake tubing.

 

Good points. The best way to stop heat transfer WOULD be to wrap the intake pipe with a sleeve of heat resistant material (you can google search "best heat shield material", some sites even offer premade sleeves for this purpose), but I really don't know that you are gonna see much of a benefit besides at idle (which Andryzzle already also mentioned).

So I guess that'll be another experiment (besides the fan) to play with. You could always wrap it in gold!

 

Hahahaha, gold would do the job quite well... I actually contemplated wrapping the intake piping before, but I thought I should address the issue of sucking up hot air and see if my heat soak problems remained....

I think you misinterpreted what I was asking though...
I am building a heat shield for the intake filter itself to keep the hot engine bay air out at idle... Something similar to this
http://www.racdyn-usa.com/Merchant2/...52.39.103M.jpg

When I said cardboard, I didn't mean the nasty brown stuff (shipping boxes etc) ..
I was thinking something more along the lines of the pvc suspended ceiling shingles.. If you are not familiar with it it might sound ridiculous, but we used them in my house and they do a hell of a job of keeping the radiant heat out.. They are also waterproof and make a great insulator.. All I probably need is one or two tiles and start cutting and joining to suit... Finally, put a piece of rubber strip on to the edges and hopefully that will keep most of the bastard hot engine bay air out at idle (along of course with my upward pointing 135cfm 120mm fan..
Ideally, I wish the AEM intake came with the plastic heat that that K&N does.. Would have been a nice touch..

I know all of this sounds pretty far fetched, but its always fun to experiment and I have about 6 weeks of free time to work on the car to get it right..♠♠♦♦

 

No we get what you are going after. I already thought you had a material picked out for the box though. I'm sure the material you just suggested would work fine. Its either that or some of the more expensive heat resistant materials (i.e. stuff that you have to get from a specialty seller).

 

Well I would be willing to deal in some more expensive materials if I would be able to cut them and shape them myself without too much trouble...

My final question would be concerning the intake tubing itself... Would wrapping it in a REFLECTIVE wrap help?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...id=p2759.l1259

I have to expect that it will help keep heat out of the intake piping at idle in particular. How much difference this will make in the real world is obviously open to debate, but thats why I ask... Debate! Let me know what you all think..

Thanks

 

dude this thread is sweet, gonna read it all later

 

Yea, definitely take a read on it.. some interesting points have come up and i'll definitely appreciate some more discussion and opinions.. Can't have too many of those...

Coincidentally after explaining my reasoning for not having a CAI on my car it became quite justified.. Trinidad has been facing some sporadic flooding at the start of the rainy season this year including on the highways etc... I have seen too many emails of peoples cars crippled or hydrolocked at the side of the road... Unpredictable incidents like this remind me why I refuse to use a CAI for this particular car...

That said, I still want to make the most of my Short ram set up...

To be honest, it will be a lot of work but I think I have almost everything sorted out besides the design of the heat shield/cool box... I would love to use metal+insulation but that will likely be so much work to get it machined well etc.. I am going to have to rough something and make it work..
Thanks everyone for the good advice so far.. keep it coming!

I promise that I will post some sort of temperature readings and pictures when it is all done...