any real differences between these 2 piggy backs?? i can't afford hondata and i need to something to moderately tune my new turbo setup with.

thanks in advance!

 

So pay $150 and use Crome Pro. VFAC is a terrible, terrible idea.

edit: You also should have factored tuning into the cost of turboing your car.

 

That is a terrible idea as well. Why pay for something that is out dated ?
Hondata, Neptune, Ectune, AEM are much better solutions to recommend.

Hondata can be expensive, just remember rebuilding your engine because you destroyed it is expensive too.
Look into a chipped obd1 ecu & local honda/acura dyno tuners which tune on neptune, ectune & other eprom chip based solutions which are inexpensive for what you get.

 

Read the OP where he said he can't afford Hondata and consequently Neptune and AEM since they're about the same cost (I believe). I am not sure about Ectune but I'm guessing it's in the same price range as Crome. Sure you're paying for something that is outdated (although all you really NEED to mess with is fuel and ignition, IAT compensation, etc. so outdated doesn't really apply since these things work on Crome pretty well) but you're paying a lot less than something that has a few more bells and whistles that aren't really needed to get a car running well.

While all of the additional features of Neptune are nice to have, if you're on a budget then it's definitely not the way to go. Many many many people have used Crome to tune in the past and will continue to do so in the future. It's a cheap method of getting the job done somewhat correctly (definitely better than VFAC for that matter).

 

my setup is a greddy integra LS kit with RC 310's that we've made work for my D16Z6 motor, i only look to run about 7-9psi, which is why I thought running something as simple as a VAFC tune. Not looking for monster HP or highest potential HP, just want a fun little sunday car that makes around 200 and runs pretty smooth. I thought i'd throw this information out there and see if it made a difference on your opinions.

thanks again guys

 

Vafc are useless...invest in Neptune. Should of thought things over first. I was going to buy some s2s2 tuner cams with a new aftermarket valvetrain, but I thought to myself I will be needing something better to tune with sooner or later so I might as well get something useful for now and then invest into motor parts. So I bought Neptune instead of the cams. Just my opinion about things but not about the VAFC. They do suck. ahaha

 

Not really, VFAC is a waste of money.

Let's put it this way- Crome should be the bare MINIMUM you tune with. The software is pretty cheap ($150) plus you need a chipping kit and an OBD1 ECU (and a conversion harness if you have OBD2). Although one expense I did forget about is the HondaLog and the Ostrich box that you'll need.

In my opinion Crome is the best value for money. The software isn't the greatest and can be a pain in the *** to get set up initially (it took me countless forum posts the first time to get everything working properly) but once I figured everything out it hasn't really given me any problems since.

There are a number of stupid little things that bother me in Crome that are supposedly much better in Neptune (from what I've heard).

Neptune is a little more expensive ($400 @ http://www.xenocron.com/neptunertp-d...new-p-223.html), however you get the Moates Demon board (Ostrich and HondaLog combined) as well as the license itself so it isn't that bad of a deal.

 

If you're on a real budget you can buy one ostrich + hulog and run Crome free + Freelog..


It's not the easiest way but it's doable, and for arround 220$ including the material to make your ECU ready for the ostrich + hulog, which I believe is arround the price of a VAFC, maybe a little bit more.

 

i can pickup a brand new vafc from my friend for 100 bucks that he never used once he decided to go from a 10psi S2K to a 35psi S2K..i've been doing some research and it seems that setting my KPA per RPM with the afc isn't that difficult, i'm not running a high boost application nor a race car..just something to have alittle fun on sundays with.

 

Listen. You came to here asking if you should use a VAFC to tune. We told you no and gave you a bunch of other options.

It doesn't matter if it's low boost/high boost, daily driver/racecar.... the VAFC is still a piece of junk and doesn't belong on a turbocharged car. Period.

If you want to go tune your car using it then go ahead. It may work and your car may run and if it doesn't blow up then that's great for you. However, I'll bet that 99% of the people who post on this forum wouldn't ever think about tuning their car this way. I know I wouldn't.

If you're not going to listen to our advice that's fine but no matter what you're trying to do with your car, most of us will never tell you that it's ok to tune using a VAFC.

How does the VAFC set up boost tables? What does it do about ignition timings for boost? How are you going to know what values to put in there?

 

Do you have a wideband?

 

Also read this: http://wikitest.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/...PiggybacksSuck

"The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable."

 

your gonna max out your injectors. and i hope you have fun pulling out your motor. do it right the first time or else youll end up spending even more money.

 

How will I max out my injectors? I'm not asking to be a smart *** I'm asking because I really don't know what you mean by this?

 

those 310cc injectors should be fine as long as your under 10psi. But then again to tune your motor. You need a chipped obd1 ecu, some sort of tuning program and a wideband. You cannot change your fuel settings without a wideband to read your AFR and you cannot tune your ignition without a dyno. My car use to have a VAFC and to be honest it ran smoother once I took the stupid thing out. Same thing with my buddies CTR, I took out his VAFC and the biotch pulled like it should.

 

my buddy maxxed out his 310s at 7 psi. stock injectors are 240 cc. im telling you this if you dont know what your doing dont mess with a tune. go to someone. or else youll be replacing that motor soon. once you get use to the car your always gonna want to turn up the boost. i would say get 550 injectors, a 3 bar map sensor, boost controler, and tune it for 13-15 psi then turn it down to 7-9 psi whatever u wanna run.

 

Deleted so people can can grow up.

 

no he wont. only if he want to turn the boost up above what it was tuned for.

 

Have you ever tuned before? If you have then open up a map and check the MAP readings at the top. He can tune the engine to run up to 15 psi and then just limit the engine to 9 psi. All that will change is that the engine will never reach the boxes all the way at the right of the map.

 

thank you atleast someone knows what theyre talking about. i sware alot of hondatech are dumb asses.

 

Mr. Domino, i really appreciate all your help..and everyone else's for that matter. your argument has made me really think 2x about running the VAFC and i'm now considering saving money and doing it the right way, I just want to know what your thoughts are on running a hondata S100 chip as it can be had for $200

can you please explain to me how tuning with the s100 works? from start to finish? i've been looking for 411 and i still don't get it. I know the chip is installed in the ECU but how does it get tuned? like what does the ECU get hooked up to and how? or is the chip tuned first then installed?

i downloaded the rom editor, and it seems intense..any advice on this for a beginner?

 

do not tune your car yourself. take it to someone that knows what they're doing. any hondata is gonna be better than that vafc. dont go the cheap route. or else youll be doing this all over.

 

Well my bad then smart one. I guess i misunderstood. But yes infact I have tuned before and do have some tuning experience under my belt. I guess the hondatech dumbass must be you

 

Neptune all Day everyday

 

isn't this just a matter of mathematics though? ((stock injector cc/new injector cc)-1 x100) then plugging in the KPA values to RPM respectively using a 3% increase every 1500 RPM or so?