Good morning guys.

I would like to have some information about improving my chassis, considering it is a street car also, and streets in brazil are pretty bumpy but I don't care so much about confort or whatever.


The engine now is being rebuilt to arround 200whp, stock tranny, open diff.

I'm running on Tokiko Illuminas + Skunk2 coilover speeves + Hard race bushings and camber kits.


I would like to know what kind of lower brace or strut bar would really make a difference and what kind of chassi mods I can make. A roll cage is going to be built, but a 4 point only as the cops can get your car towed if they see you running a cage on the street..


thanks in advance, Victor

 

Victor, if the car is going to be driven on the street (as I saw no notice of you driving it on a racetrack), this thread doesn't really belong here. Even if you were trying to make it work for both, a terribly bumpy road and a smooth track are so different that you would not be able to find a reasonable happy-medium. If it will be primarily street-driven on a bumpy road, you'll want something soft, not hard.

Also, tie bars and chassis braces will do nothing for you. Period.

*Moved to Suspension Forum*

 

I'm sorry maybe I didn't make it clear.


It is going to be driven in track circuit maybe 5, 6 days a year, for next year maybe next 2 years while my other EK is being slowly built (a full race car)

In the track events that I go, there are no super-duper competitive cars, it is 95% street cars that go to the track once in a while, so I don't need a killer now, I just want to see some supension improvement or whatever mods can make my car faster.


I'm concious that I could really use a LSD diff + some high end brakes but for now I'm going stock diff + good rotors and pads on stock calipers.



Thanks for the input

 

Some good "track day" tires are probably your best bet.
LSD diff is expensive for only 5-6 sessions unless you would use it on the race car as well...
You could install stiffer springs for the track only as well....
Good idea on the cage for the track, but the cops can call any non-factory tubing inside the passenger compartment a "cage", even if it is just a rollbar.....
Good Luck...

 

I run 7,5" slicks on 15" wheels for the track. I get them used from another categorie, but with 50-70% tread left, for a low price.

Now for springs, I'm with the skunk2 coilover sleeves, should I consider something even stiffer? I think they are rated as 8kg/cm for the front and 6kg/cm for the rear, how stiffer should I go, 10/8?

And as for the roll cage, It's mostly for safety but how does a 4, maybe 6 point cage affect body flex?

 

If you plan on driving the car on the streets and only plan on tracking it 5-6 times a season there's not reason to have a roll cage. Roll cages are not designed to be used in a car that sees street driving. Your head hitting solid steel in an accident is never a good thing.

As for the upgraded brakes you'd probably do fine with a solid pad like Hawk Hp+ and something like an Autozone rotor (cheap and easy to replace). Don't forget to run some good brake fluid and you'll be fine.

Although an LSD is a nice to have it's definitely not a requirement.

 

I don't plan on a full roll cage, but a 4 point, maybe a 4 point with 2 door bars, so nothing I would hit my head on. Also I don't need the back seats.


Last event I went I was pushing 176whp and I fell A HUGE NECESSITY for a LSD as the car would spin the inner wheel pretty bad in the corner exits, but I think my new suspension + camber adjust would help minimizing this factor, even though I'm rebuiding the engine with bigger stroke, cams, intake etc and being conservative I'll hit 200 at the wheels or so.

By the way, as for the camber, where should I start? Considering that the car will be run in big and high speed tracks as Interlagos (the F1 fans should now it).

For the brakes I was with drilled rotors + local brand racing pads + DOT4. DAMN THAT WAS BAD, after 3 hot laps the car would do anything but stop.


Just uploaded some pics from my crew. My car is the one without a headlight.












and this is the project car, will see some serious track in a year or so:

 

Camber is dependent on tire choice. You say 7.5" slicks, but what brand and model?

With that kind of power, an LSD would be VERY useful.

You just need a better brake pad and fluid it sounds like, not necessarily a larger caliper/rotor. I have no idea what's available in your area though.

 

I run Pirelli Pzero tires, 185/60 R15

Not sure about the compound, but is the only one we have availiable for a reasonable price.


I'm in US till july, so I have access to some parts hahaha, but as 16 and 17 inch slicks are not availiable (they are but as expensive as 2k dolars for a set) I will stick with oem size stuff.

As for the LSD If the money allows I will be gettin an Mfactory one, the OBX sounds tempting ,I know many people that had success with it but I don't wanna take the risk right now.


I'm kind of freaky for being fast right now, my best lap at AIC circuit in south brazil was 1:47 and this year I plan to run 1:40 flat. I know the car is capable of that, I ran 1:47 with no alignment AT ALL, crappy traction, 0 camber on the rear, and the front was so messed up that even with zero camber at the rear the car would understeer. A MUUUCH simples setup with a good driver ran 1:44 so I know there is a big room for improovement

 

185/60-15? Damn, that is a narrow tire.

 

Hell that is....

There are rumors that some new racing league will run 16s with 205 tires.

If that happens, gogo, if not, **** happens. I wish I had some 215s with 8" wheels or so but in Brazil tires are freaking expensive

 

Guys, and what about pillar bars, tower bars, lower braces, what can really make me go faster and what can not?

 

If -and only if- there are bars that will have some effect on a Honda Civic then those would be front and rear upper strut bars. Forget everything else. If you get such bars, get one-piece solid steel ones. The only ones I know that really comply to this are those from Explicit Speed Performance.

For the track, get stiffer springs, make sure your shocks can handle them.

Loose weight.

Get light-weight rims, don't use like those OEM EK4 wheels on the middle Civic in the pic, those weigh 7.8kg

What swaybars are you running? Get SI/EK4/SiR/EK9 26mm FSB and ASR subframe brace to mount EK9 22mm RSB or thicker.

And get sticky rubbers.

 

Check these guys out. http://emracing.com/main.html

 

With a cage pretty much all those bars are pointless anyway. Even without a cage they're pointless.

 

Then one could ask the Q why Honda puts tiebars on like the EK9 and struts and chassis bars on EK4, 9 and ITR ...

Any case, EK9 has a seam welded (or something) chassis, so to get a stiffer EK without resorting to a cage, get an EK9.

 

For complete chassis stiffness put a cage in an EK9.

 

The chassi is actually an EK4 so I run OEM Swaybars and that's all... IS the EK9 RSB much stiffer than the EK4 one?

Besides, there is not a single Type R chassi in Brazil, the best I can go with, is the EK4 or the EG6.


I may fabricate some solid stainless tower bars and a 4 point cage, maybe removable, not sure yet

 

EK4 RSB 15mm, EK9 22mm.

 

I found this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GENUI...8#ht_704wt_941


what else do I need to mount it in my car?

 

- ASR subframe brace
- EK9 22mm RSB
- D-brackets #52308-SS0-000 (same as ITR so they should be available in your country)
- bushings #52315-S03-Z01 (JDM part so maybe not available in your country (in mine they are), you could try/use the ITR 22mm bushings #52315-ST7-Z01)

Password sells a complete kit (option 2).

You could also get the ASR 24mm RSB (option 4).

I do not recommend the ITR RSB for the EK (as PWD:JDM says).

 

I'm considering getting this ASR kit...

BTW, what F/R camber and toe I should start from? The local national race cars run MAD CAMBERS at the track but I don't see that applying to honda chassis...

Should I start with someting arround -3 front -2 rear and stock toes?

 

-3/2° is still street driveable (3° on the edge), but watch for road deformeties.

Stock toe limits are pretty wide: +1 to -3 (1 toe out - 3 toe in); for track use toe out, (a certain amount) of toe out is also streetable (meaning giving no extra wear).

But Q like this might be better asked in 'Road racing' subforum.

 

I actually moved it here from there.

 

Humm, I don't care for street driveability as the camber and toe will be re-done before and after going to the track, I just want some good point to start.


Maybe I should use more angles then? Like -4/-3 camber and +1 toe on the front, and on the rear? More camber would also mean less traction in the corner exists due to open diff + high power?


Can actually that has already used one OBX LSD give some info on them? Because I now 2 people using them without problems and the price is nice.