I purchased the MSD ignition and Blaster coil a year ago for a Volvo mainly for a more complete burn to reduce emissions but I also thought it might give me a performance increase. I sold the volvo and transfered the set to my 93 Accord EX. After a bunch of reading on this forum I know now that I probably have no performance gains over stock but I was wondering since I already bought it, should I upgrade the cap and rotor to the MSD ones or keep the stock. Also, should I upgrade my wires to thicker ones. I'm just thinking that since I have the ignition box and the blaster coil I might be bottlenecking at the cap and rotor and then at the wires.

I was about to purchase the MSD cap and rotor as well as 10mm wires but I just wanted to get some input from you guys to make an informed decision.

Thanks.

 

The main reason you switch out the cap on a Honda is to change the system from an internal coil to an external coil setup. The external coil setup physically needs a different cap so you change it. I wouldn't say there's a bottle neck. You won't notice any performance gains over stock so it's up to you if you want to spend money on it. I upgraded my coil and wires with MSD because I also run nitrous.

 

Thanks man. I'm just gonna save my money then. I'm still thinking about upgrading my wires though. What's more important for wires: thickness (9mm, 10mm, etc.) or resistance. Obviously the lower resistance wires are better but is the thickness what determines the resistance or is that just extra insulation to prevent electrical noise.... or... should I just stick with the crappy 7mm wires (I think Bosch) that I purchased from Autozone...

 

this article say the stock honda spark plug wire(OEM by Sumitomo Electric) is better than after market spark plug wire(even NGK) w/ dyno graph

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...rticle_id=8680

 

While I do not disagree that the stock wires are good, that test is somewhat flawed in the way they draw their conclusions. Anyone with experience on a dynojet can tell you that if you take a stock car and run it once on the dyno for a baseline, shut it off for 5 minutes, run it again, shut it off for 5 minutes and then run it one last time, the power curves will look exactly the same as they do in that test. The reason for this is heat soak. Even if you change nothing, the power curve will usually drop by 1-2hp across the curve, until the engine temp stabilizes. If anything, the test would show that there was probably no gain or loss with any of the wires.

Their claim that the aftermarket wires were misfiring because of the "jaggedness" of the curve isn't necessarilly correct either. The ignition pick up that many Dynojets use, simply clamp onto the #1 plug wire. Those pickups were prone to problems and it can be seen in many peoples dyno charts by a missing or broken torque curve. Depending on the fit of the pickup on the plug wire, the age and condition of the pickup as well as the placement of it, can cause the jagged lines the article mentioned. It would be premature to assume the curves jaggedness were directly related to misfiring.

 

That makes a lot of sense. As metal heats up its electrical resistance goes up, which in turn would make the path less effective, thus transferring less electrical charge to the sparkplug as some of it is lost going through the heated wire.

Well since I have the CD box and performance coil I would think that my spark is more efficient. For this reason, would upgrading my Autozone wires (which are not OEM) be pointless? I read in the article that the claims for the performance wires is that they deliver a stronger spark but isn't that the purpose of the performance coil? I guess since the cap and rotor issue was cleared out, would the cheap wires I purchased cause a bottleneck? meaning that it would make the CD box and performance coil not deliver as they should....

 

you're not going to notice anything. what is a stronger spark going to do? all you need is enough spark to light a fuel mixture. since people are using stock ignition systems at 600whp, i think you'll be fine.

 

Yeah, I know this. I'm not trying to see what to do to "notice" it. I just like to know that what I have is working at it's fullest. Just a personal thing. Like I said at the top of the thread, I am also using this to lower emissions and since I have the CD box and the coil I just want to be sure they are working like they should and not being restricted by the wires. I'm also just curious about wether the wires are bottlenecking this ignition setup.... I just want to know, that's all... I know a lot of you guys are knowledgeable so I wanted to learn something new.

 

Also, it is my understanding (from some reading) that a more complete burn helps make the cat last longer. Not sure if this is true but I thought it made sense

 

And I would think that a stronger spark does make a difference. Not all the fuel gets burned up the first time around. I'm sure you know this.... that's one of the jobs of the cat... to convert some of the unburned fuel to less dangerous elements

 

It can make a difference in a couple ways: Like Pirate said, you can run a larger gap than stock which deshrouds the spark more and allows the mixture to ignite easier and more completely. This is usually good for better gas mileage if not a little bit more power.

If you have a multi spark system like most of the MSD stuff, it "can" help with emissions by giving a more complete burn. Some other manufacturers used to use dual spark plug per cylinder, systems which were intended to help boost emission performance. But this was often a band-aid way to deal with a poor combustion chamber design or weak ignition system.

A car that runs rich or has a lot of gas mixture that gets down to the cat, will significantly reduce the life of the cat or destroy it.

 

Yeah I do have a multi spark system MSD box (actually streetfire but they are the same company just repackaged). So what kind of gap can I set my plugs with this setup (93 Accord EX). Or should I just do trial and error and increase the gap a little bit at a time? If I do trial and error, how do I know when I hit the point of diminishing returns and start deteriorating performance?

 

You prob would benifit from a wideband o2 sensor to monitor your gap changes aswell as reading the plugs every 10-20miles. Its not worth the effort really stock gap or real close to it is prob gona work the best anyway. But i like the way it smells without the cat so im prob wrong.

 

I would love to have a wideband sensor but they are just too expensive and I just can't afford it. It would not be worth it for me anyway for what I am trying to do.

 

You don't need a wide band. Typically you run the car on the dyno and keep opening up the gap until power drops/it starts to misfire and then close it down by .002" or so. That's the ideal way, or you can start with the stock gap and open it up by another .005" and either just leave it, maybe experiment on the road with it by opening it another .002" at a time until you feel the car miss, up to you.

 

Excellent. Thanks for the advice. My last question is about plugs. The Hanes manual calls for NGK ZFR5F-11. Should I just get these or should I go with something else?

 

I believe those are an iridium plug? If so you should be able to get a similar copper NGK plug for less money, it just won't last as long (usually 2 years vs 5 approx). I would ask the parts store to give you an equivalent NGK plug in copper. It's a fairly hot plug with a 5 heat range.

 

those are a standard copper plug. different part number for the iridiums. That part number fits almost all non-vtec engines. The plug is a 5 heat range and would only need to go up if you change static compression in some way shape or form (High compression, turbo, supercharger, Nitrous)

 

Thanks for the help Shodan

 

Thanks guys. I have ZFR5FGP (g-power). These are fine platinum tips. The gap is said to be 0.044 but I measured the gaps at 0.04 so maybe I'm reading the gaps wrong but I doubt it. So my question is then can I gap these types of plugs?

By the way, I pulled all my sparkplugs to check the gaps and I forgot to put the wires back in. I actually had them just resting in the wells so the metal on wires wasn't even touching the plugs. I started the car without realizing I did this but the car started right up! crazy! that spark from the coil/msd combo must be really strong.

 

yes you can adjust the gap on those plugs.

 

Thanks 00Red_SiR. I appreciate your help.

 

iridium plugs are the ones that come pregapped. You cant gap them unless you know what your doing

 

I'm pretty sure most plugs I have bought over the years have come pre-gapped. As far as I know all NGK plugs come pre-gapped to certain specs depending on the model. The g-power ones I purchased are supposed to be pre-gapped to 0.044 according to the NGK website. I actually measured them to be 0.04 so I would think it's a good idea to always check the gaps. I'm gonna gap them to 0.045 (0.005 increase as 00Red_SiR recommended) and see if I have a missfire. I own an inductive engine analyzer so that should be easy to check.

 

I increased the gaps to 0.045 and so far no miss. How high should I rev it to be sure it won't miss before I increase the gap a little more?