I just finished checking my V2V with Pro3 cams in my fully ported Gsr head with stock sizes supertech valves. Here are the results:

Intake Exhaust Clearance
0 0= 0.00"
+3 +4= 0.024"
0 +4= 0.044"
0 +5= 0.049"
0 +6= 0.055"
+1 +6= 0.053"
+1 +5= 0.046"

I want to push my powerband more in the upper rpms even at the tradeoff of less midrange. Which setting would be best to start at on the dyno for this tradeoff?

 

Retard the intake if you want to put your powerband in the upper range.

I like to first start with a confortable v2v zone...Do a few dyno run and play with the cam gear and see what your engine like.I know that its time consuming but its the best tip that i can give you...

At 0-0 with my pro 3 cam i am in the 0.012 zone with a pr3 head

 

nice info! Would be interesting to see the power differences between a few of them...

 

At 0-0 the valves were sooo close to touching that I didn't even try to slide the feeler gauge through...I just called it 0.00" lol.

 

okay

I do the same thing with anything over 0.047.

Like 92typeR said to me the stock honda vtec centerline is 98 intake 110 exhaust!

if you take your pro 3 centerline: 100 intake 104 exhaust...

You need to "adjust" your cam gear to -2 intake +6 exhaust.Keep in mind that if you have a decked block/milled head these setting can change a little.But is always important to look at your v2v and p2v just in case.

i will be on the dyno soon with my new engine too

 

good stuff Teamdiesel, I look forward to see how your engine does this year with those cams.

 

Yeah the tuner 3's gave me 249whp, I am hoping for 260+ this year

 

I am at 0.049". I think anything less than 0.040" is close. Safe would be 0.050"+.

The exhaust cam is along for the ride, adjust the intake cam on the dyno, starting at -1 and go to +2, in 1deg incriments. If you know V2V at all those intake settings, keep the exhaust cam timed so that your V2V is at a comfortable minimum (0.045"+).

Hope that helps.

Post results!

 

so should I start with the exhaust cam at +5 or +6?

 

Start with your intake cam at -1, and the exhaust should be at whatever keeps you around 0.045-0.050" of V2V. Your best power will be with the separation at a minimum, so do not target specific cam timing values with the exhaust cam.

I start at -1 intake, and keep advancing intake until best power (area under the curve) is achieved. Your stop point on the intake advancement will be determined by your P2V measurements.

Hope that makes sense.

 

nice info, but im missing something...what is the significance of setting intake to -1 and leaving it was that a centerline?

i need these numbers for pro2's now...

 

-1, -2, -3. Start whereever you feel the need to. This is merely a starting point for your test. Since the exhaust cam gear is dependent on the intake cam you do not need to 'test' to set exhaust cam settings.

I've found Pro-2's and Pro-3's make best power between -1 and +1 on the intake.

 

started the car today and the Pro3's idle perfectly was the car reached operating temps.

 

you can run your v2v as close as .030 if need be

i have run this close this for a couple seasons now w/o problem and i know others who run v2v this close as well

many say .030 is the min "safe" limit

so anything over .040 is definately safe

now for a daily driver which will see alot of miles you may want more, this way as the stem to guide clearance increases and the valves get sloppy in the guide you will have the room to compensate

have any of you ever noticed depending on how you allow the valve to sit in the guide it will change your v2v findings?

 

I am currently using +5 exhaust, 0 Intake. That will be the first setting I try on the dyno, but for right now I will park the car until my new AEM wideband sensor arrives to dial in the A/F ratio.

 

Can't wait to see the numbers. I know you will be very happy with Pro-3's

 

where did they degree in at?

thats where you want to start as long as you have enough v2v at those settings..

 

I didn't degree them in seeing that I will still have to adjust settings on the dyno, i didn't see it necessary. I just check V2V which I think is more important.

 

aren't the new skunks designed with a 0 center line anyway for drop in and go? Or does this no apply to the Pro3's?

 

i agree checking v2v is more important than simply degreeing the cams in and calling it a day.

however there are 2 problems w/ this:

1st, now you have no idea where to start on the dyno and will have to make multiple cam adjustments w/ multiple pulls requiring multiple tuning adjustments, timing, etc.

2nd, you will still have to check p2v at each of those cam settings before you can start playing w/ the gears on the dyno. failure to do so will result in bent valves.

if you would have done it properly and degreed the cams after checking v2v, you would know where to start and exactly where to check p2v

pro 3's are not something you want to guess at, you should do it properly and degree them after checking v2v. and then check p2v after your done degreeing them.

 

no way, you drop em in at 0,0 and you will drop a valve haha

theres no clearance there....

 

"Supposedly" they are but Skunk is hesitant to say that as there isn't an easy way of identifying which ones are or aren't unless you follow the instructions that come in the cam boxes. Teamdiesel measured the V2V clearances already which is how he came up with the cam seperation to start with.

 

i guess i should re phrase that. I didnt mean leave them at 0,0 but meaning no need to degree them in because they have the same center line as OE cams so you can drop them in and go with the "safe" adjustments. At least thats what i have seen about the new versions of them.

 

The following arguments are based on two assumptions:

1) The goal is to achieve 'best power' by means of cam timing adjustments on a dyno.

2) The 'degreed in' settings are not going to achieve 'best power'.

Actually, you have a very good idea where to start. You use simple math, with the Pro3 centerlines compared against OE centerlines, and create a start point. Using a degree wheel and dial indicators to locate valve events is good for a one-time installation, where no cam timing adjustments are going to be made.

Rhetorical question: What is the difference between a degreed in set of Pro3's which are then tuned for cam timing on a dyno to achieve 'best power', and a set of Pro3's that are installed using math derived installation points then tuned for cam timing on a dyno to achieve 'best power'?

A few extra dyno pulls? Maybe, that is a big 'what if' though. What if your mathematically derived start points are closer to the final 'best power' cam settings? Then your 'quick' settings have now saved you multiple dyno runs, tuning adjustments, etc. compared to 'degreed in' settings.

That is a very qualitative argument, and there is no way you can positively say that 'degreed in' cam settings are closer to best power than mathematically derived cam settings. From my experience tuning cams on a dyno, even those who have a manufacturer's recommended centerline identical to OE centerlines, final cam settings for 'best power' are almost never the same, even on very similar builds.

Measuring P2V has nothing to do with using a degree wheel and dial indicators to locate actual valve events. Two separate processes that are unrelated. I would argue that P2V and V2V (more importantly V2V) measurements are much more important than using a degree wheel and dial indicator to locate valve events.

So now you have a degreed in set of Pro3's that you measured P2V and V2V. Now you want to start making cam timing adjustments on the dyno to find 'best power'. Doesn't that negate your argument for only measuring P2V at the degreed in settings? What do you do now?

Why just measure P2V at 'degreed in' cam settings? Wouldn't you rather adjust the cam gears until you hit your P2V 'limit'? Doing this would give you your maximum range of cam adjustments before P2V, a more valuable thing to know versus what your P2V is at 'degreed in' settings.

Would you call using math to determine centerline positioning and measuring V2V to develop a cam timing test matrix a 'guess'?

 

every set of pro cams i have checked havent been close to their "suggested settings"

i havent heard anything about them making any machining changes, but who knows?