http://www.schrothracing.com/store/T...e/rallye-cross

Considering this. Or OMG NO I should get a proper 5 or 6 point instead for my autox/track day CRX.

 

Not for a track day, yes autocross. Althugh I had one of those for autocross and it always rode up to my chest which was uncomfortable. A 5 point cannot be that much more.

And I'm not sure if some track days allow any kind of harness without a roll bar at least. If you flip your car your head/neck become the roll bar.

 

Personally I would for novice group. I know a lot of people are concerned with submarining, but for a production car with the seats relatively upright, I don't see how it would be different from a factory 3-pt. The trick is on how to tighten it.

But for faster students, hmm... I will pass.

 

I fall into that slower student relm.
I have a set of those on my passenger side, no complaints from any of the instructors.
Heck usually they're shocked they don't have to make due with the crappy factory three point.
Driver's side Profi II ASM FE, passenger's side Rallye Cross works very well with DelSol seats.

as far as the fear of my head becoming the roll bar, note my sig....

 

It has the ASM technology, so it should be ok. For you though, just get a 5/6-point. Just make sure the sub belt(s) are long enough to reach over the front of the seat.

FYI, for that price you can pick up a lot of used 5/6-points.

 

Not for me personally. They always seemed like they feel funny, and most ive seen with the shoulder restraints are bolted to the bottom of the rear of the seat. Not good.

 

You can submarine with the factory 3 point and there is no way to tighten it enough unless everyone is using a cg lock. I tired it it was not fun.....i wouldn't touch any 4 point i don't care who makes it. Factory belt might be safe on the street but it sure isn't safe on the track. Crotch belt or stay home.

Get a full cage with 6 point or your crx isn't safe for the track.

$169 for a schroth.... You can get a proper 6 point for that or cheaper

 

crow enterprise has race harnesses for almost the same price SFI approved gl

actually they are cheaper

 

You sure about that? The very design of a stock 3-point is to allow the upper body to fold over the lap belt and NOT submarine. There should be nothing preventing the body from doing this.

I wouldn't go that far. That's basically saying anything other than a full-blooded race car isn't safe on track, and it just isn't true. Maybe you meant to use a HARNESS, you need a cage.

Edit: ...which still isn't quite right.

 

lol wut

 

I'm totally sure about it , especially the part where the lap belt pulls through your stomach and almost breaks your back. Trust me I am sure....there is NO WAY IN HELL you will ever pull a stock belt tight enough to not have it ride up and pull through your stomach especially with a multi impact crash that can happen on a race track. Not only was this belt tight but I pulled the seat forward just to make sure it was tight. It didn't stay in place and ripped into my abdomen....it was ****ing horrible....especially the part where your mouth fills with stomatch acid lol. I have used all sorts of belts from those cheap 4 points to stock belts simpson , leaf , schroth momo sparco.
Anyways what I would do is just run a lap/crotch combo with a stock 3 point over that....protect your abdomen and stay away from 4 point they are junk.

Oh ya crx's and civic they are not safe, weak a pillars get a cage or don't go. Don't bother listening to
H-T guys who are going to argue this point and just tell you to go you'll be fine.



Hey wait....you'll be fine

 

So...how about some actual evidence, instead of ONE story and one random pic of a rolled CRX...with no correlating information about the safety of the occupants? I've been in a few accidents with stock seatbelts and never had the problem you described. As for a rollover, just about EVERY car will have the roof collapse. The CRX is nothing special in that regard. Assuming you have stock seats and no harness, this should be ok, as the occupants will move when the seat breaks. This has been shown SEVERAL times in track rollovers.

If I really need to, I can dig up other pics/references to prove these points.

Your attitude of being safe is warranted from your personal experience, but you don't NEED a cage to go on track, or else the cars would not be allowed in the first place.

 

What are you saying you want me to post more pics of my crx? How many a-pillar collapses do you need to see before you think you need a cage? 2? 5? 100? You are not safe going without a full cage , not a autopower not a kirk....and then even with a full cage you are still not safe.

The CRX is special just like any coupe type car with a long a-pillar there is a difference.

Look up seat belt injuries, these are caused from lap belts.....again it's not going to matter how much you tighten them.


Telling this guy he is ok with a 4 point or a stock belt......he is not....telling him he is OK without a cage....he is not.

Hey but go to the track lol that's OK. $$$

 

Dude, just because YOU were injured in this instance (stock belt and no cage/bar) does not mean it isn't safe. On the contrary, other than your abdominal injury you walked away! If it was that unsafe, you would be dead.

I HAVE seen lots of rollovers and collisions. And guess what? Everything worked like it was supposed to, and the occupants lived to talk about it. How about the E36 with the roof crushed down to the door line? Or the new Mag-feature Mustang that ended up the same way?

More to the point, I've been in, let's see, three collisions while wearing the stock belts, and other than a bruised chest from the shoulder belt, had no injuries. I also personally know several other people that have been through the same, and suffered no more than I did. On the subject of lapbelts injuries, I have heard of them and researched them, and they are typically caused by improper use of lapbelts, either too loose or too high up on the abdomen rather than over the hips.

Just because a car's roof collapses LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED TO does not mean you must have a cage or you'll f*cking DIE. That's just ridiculous.

Sure, the safer the better, but it is by no means a requirement.

 

You just can't expect your lap belt to stay in the same spot on your hips. Go for a drive tighten down your belt and when you finish your drive tell me your belt will be in the same spot? Maybe if you have a big gut. You can't expect that lap belt to stay in the same spot after the inital hit. It won't.

If you think the roof collapse went well like how it was designed and think my head sticking out the window was all planned out then what more can be said. My body is straight up and my neck head is sticking out the window. Try belting yourself in with your stock belt and pull off that move.

The mustang? Well maybe if the guy used some proper foot plates he wouldn't have his tubes poking out his floor. Who the hell did his tech? Wait probably the same people who say autopower is OK.

Anyways it's just typical RR behavior to tell everyone they will be ok with subpar safety. Not only on here but ever track. People need to make money on these events and you can't expect everyone to come with proper safety besides a helmet.


Just to add to that post I hate to say it but you go drag racing in a freaking straight line and if you go fast enough they force you to run this or that safty device. While Sportcar motion can win time attacks with a $300 bolt in rollbar

 

Hmm... I'm going to change the question now

Would you feel safe in an expired harness that is in good condition from ebay? Every so often, a Schroth 6 point from a Nascar team pops up for like a little over $100

I have an affinity towards Schroth, Willans or whatever is the pimp harness brands. Or I could just get those harnesses for the driver and a G-Force or Crow for the passenger. I'm cheap but not too cheap. Looking into a Kirk or Autopower but if I could find a nearby shop that could weld in a roll bar, even better.

I feel all nervous drilling the floor on my beat up Honda for the eyelet bolt to put in harness. Even though it is old and crappy.

 

I've used used harnesses for years, and even crashed with one; no problem if it's in good condition. The "expired" bit (especially SFI) is a guideline for legal reasons, not necessarily safety reasons. There are three big exceptions to this:
-If the harness is faded (sunlight does degrade the material).
-If the harness is torn/ripped in any way (duh).
-If the harness has EVER been in a crash. They are a one-time use item.

As long as those three things are ok, you're good to go. Only other thing to watch out for with used harnesses is that some are meant to work in a very specific application. Some of the NASCAR ones have super short shoulder straps that bolt to the cage, rather than longer ones that can wrap around. That would be a problem. You just have to look carefully at the particular model.

For the mounting, just make sure you use nice, big backing plates and washers on each side and you should be fine. If you want help with that just give me a call, I've done it many times.



89civic, I'm done with you, and you really need to do your homework as you're wrong about a lot of what you're talking about. I'll leave it at that, because you're clearly not listening to a single thing I'm saying.

 

i'd feel safe in a recently expired belt usually (if its in perfect shape). most people agree that the expiration dates simply conveniently sell more harnesses, and unless people leave them out in the desert sun, they simply dont go bad very fast.

89civicdx, where did you rollover happen? were you the guy who had the endo at WMHM 5 or 6 (cant remember whichone)..

that flip was the one that made me buy a bar. now i have a full cage.

 

ncwlau....i can weld up a rollbar for you too. i bought a lot of material when i bought mine (to do both my cars, just finished the first). PM me if you want one. 1.625 DOM, nearly any design you want.

 

To add a bit more to 89's crash and seat belt cutting into you. Realize this is apples to oranges though. I'm not sure how fast you were going when you flipped and crashed your CRX but realize that a typical passenger car your seat belts are supposed to save you in a typical everyday accident, not when you are at a track day going over most highway speeds. So figure they are supposed to save you below 75mph. Anything above that "you are at risk" of suffering larger injuries due to the nature of the sport.
Plus accidents CAN happen at a track day. We all know this, just like going sky diving you KNOW there is a chance your parachute will not open, or you have equipment malfunction.

But we all do these things for the rush, or excitement of competing - or we wouldn't be here talking about this stuff.

Heck the same type of rollover can happen at an autocross, abeit less chance, but the chance is still there.

 

i feel much more safe driving on the track than I-696 in detroit area. A proper roll-bar for a track day is sufficient. A full cage is for competition and those types of impacts and risks. Sure it's ideal but a PROPER bar and harness system is a perfect balance for a street driven car. I am using a set of Simpson used harnesses from a good friend's production car and they're great and the cost to me? Nothing...

So,

don't buy the ugly, tacky 4-point car-seat belt and get a proper racing harness w/ a roll bar or skip it all together. As an instructor I would prefer a stock setup in a car without a rollbar because i'm not quite strong enough to hold the car up w/ my head.

 

I never argued with that....you are right. I've been going to the track since 95 this happened on 05 and was one of the rare times I used a stock belt from way in 95 learning how to autox. I was just replying to the thought of using a lap belt(any belt 4 or 3) on the track without a crotch belt. Anyway you can sure bet on the street I make sure where that lap belt is all the time NOW lol Also I couldn't believe I got a lol wut it hurt my feelings...but it's OK lol. I thought CG Lock was pretty good too

Oh ya thats true when you go skydiving but I guess when if you don't walk away from your dive they don't have to shut down the sky...or maybe they do? I don't know.


OH RedZC that happened at Shannonville....it wasn't very fast ...maybe that turn is like 90km and it flipped end over end , I'm glad you got the front half now too ....I made some posts in the ef section in topic called is ef a good race car about rollbars and people not sitting near the main hoop maybe check that out.....lots of arguing I never see enough pics of your car ...really love it

Anyhoo I like expired harnesses too...there was a great post/topic from turboteener about SFI dates but he got banned lol....maybe SFI pulled some strings to shut him up Or maybe it was on another site lol. Though for a $100 or little more you could probaly buy a new latch buckle harness. What about a crow or a g-force....must it be a Schroth

http://www.crowenterprizes.com/Pages...estraints.html
http://www.gforce.com/products/harness.php
http://simpsonraceproducts.com/produ...id=10098&sort=


.

 

turboteener got himself banned, no one else was responseible

 

The A pillars didn't collapse but after I hit the tree head on I flipped onto my roof, rolled onto my hatch and settled upside-down. Walked away with nothing more than a sore back that lasted a day or so...





needless to say, I'm comfortable in the stock 3 point belts... but I'll be upgrading once I get at least a roll bar in.

 

^go for it...have fun its all about fun eh...have fun be safe get home safe ...look at that thing its a tank....glad you are OK




This car its not built so well lol



lol silly teener



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