Hello, my name is Craig. Im 19, living in Phoenix, Arizona. I have recently been introduced to the honda scene, and to club racing and HPDE. I attended my first HPDE event on Saturday at PIR and it was an experience I will never forget. I have met alot of great people willing to help out in entering some NASA events and am really excited. I will be hopefully pilot a DC Integra GSR. However, I have a question I could not find the answer to after spending the last 8 hours researching both here and on the NASA website. I will be only running HPDE events for some time to come as I am a working (possibly two jobs) college student.

Question: Is it safe and/or appropriate to run a car that will be covered under full insurance with regards to liability? Since I am covered under my parents insurance, they are concerned that in the event of an accident in which either damage to another car, or bodily injury occurs, I will be sued for liability.

Thanks for the answers in advance! Cant wait to get started!

-Craig

 

Nowadays, most insurance policies explicitly exclude coverage for liability (or collision damage) for incidents that occur on a racetrack, even in HPDE events. It doesn't invalidate your policy elsewhere, but they won't pay for claims that occur there. You can read your policy to confirm this; look in the "exclusions" section.

Each participant in these events signs a waiver in which he/she waives any liability on the part of the organizers and, in many cases, the other participants if any incidents occur. This does not mean that you can't be sued, but it makes it somewhat more difficult for someone to win such a suit (although it can still happen).

To give you an idea of the chances of any of this happening - In the couple hundred HPDE events in which I have participated, I have seen damage occur to 1-2 percent of the cars in any given event. Out of the 8-10,000 cars and drivers in those ~200 events, I am aware of exactly one lawsuit, and it was a case where the owner of a car sued someone else that he allowed to drive his car. I am not saying that you cannot be sued, only that it is highly unlikely.

Bottom line, the answer to your question is that you can be sued for liability in the event of an accident, and you may or may not win such a lawsuit. Your insurance policy will probably not cover any damages or liability. So this is a risk you need to consider when deciding whether or not to participate in these events.

Hope this helps.

 

don't worry about the insurance. because if you do a HPDE and hit another car, your insurance will drop you. why, because you are RACING. a lot of regular car insurances (progressive, state farm, allstate) will probably drop you cause racing has a lot of liability. to much head ache for a normal insurance to cover.


Edit* ^^^ what he said

 

Thanksfor the responses! I was under the impression that this will be the case in terms of waivers, however, a recent accident at Firebird Raceway here in Phoenix has my parents freaked out to the max. In your opinion, what would be the best/safest way to run in HPDE events? should i spend less on my daily driver, maybe get just a civc ex, and then spend cash on an EG coupe to prepare for the track? Any suggestions are welcome.

 

Drive what you have bone stock, learn to drive it well and fast, then expand.
Dont put the kart before the horse.

 

They probably won't drop you for doing track events. But any damage or liability incurred in those events won't be covered under the policy.

Well, if your concern is over liability, that can happen no matter what car you're driving. If your concern is over the value of your car, driving a less expensive car means that you have less at risk if you damage anything on it. But it may also mean you have to pay to maintain two different cars, etc.

I have a few simple guidelines that can reduce your risk of any on-track incidents.

1. Start out slow, and build up speed in small increments at a time. Don't suddenly start driving 10 mph faster than you did on the previous lap.

2. Understand what an early apex is. It happens when you either start turning the wheel too early, or when you don't turn it hard enough. The result, if you don't recognize it immediately, is that you run off the track before the track-out point (the normal exit of the turn). If you understand what it is and how to recognize it, you can make an immediate adjustment and avoid the most dire consequences.

3. If you think you're going to go off the track, do so with your wheel pointed straight ahead as much as possible. This will keep your car under control and prevent your car from rolling. For example, it's easier to keep your car under control going straight down the track with two wheels on the track and two wheels off, whereas if you jerk the steering wheel trying to keep from going off, you're more likely to lose control entirely and the car can wind up hitting something hard.

4. Don't think you can go as fast as at your last event. In one event, by the end of the second day, you may be screaming around the track, going pretty darn fast and having a lot of fun. But when you go to your next event, it's two months later, you've forgotten the line and the tricks you learned, and you start the day with the temperature 40 degrees colder than it was at the end of the day last time out. Start out slower!

5. If it rains or the track is wet, don't go out. I know not everyone agrees with this; many people say you can learn a lot in the rain, and it's true. But bad things are a whole lot more likely to happen when the track is wet. 'nuff said.

 

absolutely don't tell your insurance company your doing anything (auto-x, HPDE, racing, etc..). When my dad inquired with Travelers as to whether they would cover me in a racing accident, they told him that if i even went racing they would drop us. i have full coverage BTW.

 

All great points, especially number 4... something that has bitten myself and a number of fellow drivers in the *** at least once or twice.

Regarding number 5... while you do readily admit that not everyone agrees with your opinion, to tell a beginner simply "don't go out" when it is wet, is likely to scare him into doing just that. It may be a bit more helpful to impart your opinion that you do not care for driving on wet tracks, suggest that the beginner decide for himself, but do so with a high level of caution.

 

Indeed. Wet driving has a lot to offer actually. Situations like oversteer, understeer, the need of good pedal modulation, smooth turn-in, etc. are hyper-accentuated at much lower speeds than in a normal dry condition. This is great for practice IF you know what to do with it all. That's a big 'if', but wet driving can be very beneficial.

OP, you shouldn't be riding anyone's *** while you're still learning. If you keep proper distance, get point-by's on the straight, and have overall good manners the odds of anything happening at your fault are slim.

The other thing you have to think of is: everyone else on the track is in the exact same position as you. Most incidents in HPDE's are single-car spins/off-track excursions. If you do entangle with someone, most of the time any incidents will be handled without bringing insurance into the mix.

You can always build a track beater. EF, CRX, DA, EG/J and DC shells are going for cheap these days. Throw a stock B18B1 in one of 'em, get some decent tires and brakes, and start practicing.

 

again, thanks for the replies. you are all making this entrance into the NASA world a smooth one. basically what i had in mind, was to have a "track" car that will be insured with the same type of insurance classic cars that are only driven once a month use. You call up the insurance agent, tell the car is being taken out...not necessarily to the track or what-have-you, and then go have fun.

If there anymore pointers to give out, please express them! Thanks again..

p.s. I love honda-tech. hahaha see you on the track!

-Craig

 

if im not mistaken, can't you get racing insurance?

 

Fixed.

Enjoy the track!

 

is there any information on this subject?! and thanks for the correction, haha, I love the RR/AX subforum especially. its quite its own different world! Ok, so anyone with information of the aforementioned quote will be outstanding.For now, Im going to dig around in the archives, look up more info on NASA and SCCA and drool over track cars until I can find a good, BASIC, preferrably STOCK (as many suggest!) candidate.

This forum is quickly becoming the reason I put off schoolwork!!! This also deserves a

 

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...31/460255.html

here ya go

 

That's an excellent point. Of all the incidents I've seen in my ~200 HPDE events, I've never seen two cars hit each other. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's extremely unlikely.

All the policies I've heard of are only for the protection of the value of your own car, and don't offer any liability coverage.

 

key word there is "racing." Many hpde's are classified as "driving schools" or "driving instruction". Any form of timed/competition event will not be covered. A buddy of mine got his porsche into the tirewall @VIR during an HPDE. His insurance covered the repairs with no problem.

So it truly depends on your insurance carrier and the language that you use to discuss the issue with them.

 

Insurance coverage for HPDE events has changed in the past few years. For many years, the relevant exclusion was for "competition and timed events", which an HPDE event is not. Within just the past few years, most insurance companies, including the two biggest (Allstate and State Farm) have changed the wording in their policies to exclude any event that takes place on a road course designed for competition events. Insurance companies that were covering damage incurred in HPDE incidents just a few years ago are no longer doing so.

You can check the language in your policy to make sure. Just remember that if your copy of your policy is a few years old, they may have sent you written notice of changes in its wording since then, changes that were effective with the renewal at that time.

 

That truly sucks. That language would also eliminate coverage for defensive driving and safety schools.

 

Ones that take place on a racetrack, yes, that's correct.

 

my friend just rolled his new si out at buttonwillow. The car was mostly stock except the turbo he wanted to throw on ther before that event.. He was in HPDE class which is tech a driving school . his insurance came out to look at the car and paid him a really good amount of money for the car / so you prob can use yr insurance in the HPDE
not sure who he is with but.. ill throw that story out there for ya

just be careful man and dont hit anyone don't push to hard until yr ready.. then there wont be any worries
remember car control is key to road racing /not power

 

How in the **** did he roll at Buttonwillow?

 

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on your insurance company, your policy, etc. It may even depend on how long you've been with them, whether you have an agent who fights for your case, etc.

Also, State Farm has only added that wording to its policies within the past year, so what they covered last year may not be covered this year.

If you have a serious incident, by all means file a claim with your insurance and see if they cover it. Maybe they will. But don't be surprised if they don't.

 

For more information about one such policy, click here.

 

Please take this advice. Focus your time, energy and money on becoming a better driver versus improving the performance of your car. I hear so many people that dump wads of cash into their street car then when they decide they'd like to do wheel-to-wheel club racing or can't afford to do more HPDEs....

Most of the accidents that I've seen at HPDE events are not in the novice group; they're often when students feel that they can begin pushing harder and go beyond what they are ready for.

Attend the event with an open mind, listen to your instructor, don't push harder than you're ready for, and have fun!!