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Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 04:22 AM
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Default Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

I was looking for info on the options for materials that that be used for bushings when I saw Andrie's post about Delrin. https://honda-tech.com/forums/road-racing-autocross-time-attack-19/if-you-could-honda-trailing-arm-bushing-what-brand-would-you-2717766/
I remembered I had come across this material called Torlon and was wondering if anyone else had ever heard of it.

The supplier is Drake Plastic http://www.drakeplastics.com/index.php
and here is what they give as features of Torlon:
Torlon is the strongest, stiffest melt processable plastic available.
Torlon is stronger at 450ºF than many plastics are at room temperature.
Torlon offers extraordinary thermal and electrical insulation in 4203 and 5030 Grades
Torlon offers metal mimicking thermal expansion, which eliminates fit and clearance problems.
Torlon has a low coefficient of friction and exceptional wear resistance.
Torlon is often the right choice for applications where high loads, temperature extremes and wear resistance are required.


It is used by Ferrari Risi Competizione in ALMS at Sebring. Here is a press release about it:

http://www.solvayadvancedpolymers.co...rari091003.pdf
“Since TORLON 4435 was used, the bushings have exhibited ‘zero wear’ in four
races, including Sebring, Daytona and LeMans,” said Richard Taylor of the Risi Team.

http://www.drakeplastics.com/new_products.php
11. FERRARI 430GT SUSPENSION BUSHINGS
The Ferrari race team Risi Competizione has upgraded to Torlon 4435 suspension bushings supplied by Drake Plastics. Each car has 8 upper and 8 lower bushings. The factory bushing material wears out and has to be changed between every race. The Risi Team engineers were seeking a solution before running the Daytona 24 Hours, where the car becomes very sloppy due to worn bushings during the race. Torlon 4435 was proven at the very rough track at Sebring with excellent results. Richard Taylor of the Risi Team said "The Torlon 4435 bushings have shown no wear throughout the season. It looks like the only time we will be replacing suspension bushings in the future is after crashes and during major overhauls.
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 04:32 AM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Here is a design guide for working with Torlon:
http://www.eplas.com.au/assets/125/f...sign_guide.pdf
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Torlon eh? Std length of 4 foot...spendy in diameters around an inch.

What about Rulon? http://www.mcmaster.com/#6362k224/=5y01j6

Scott, who can't make up his mind...if I don't need the part, then I don't need a bushing...Hmmmm...
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

http://designwithtorlon.com/

Descartes always has good stuff I found this cool website with videos on torlon thanks.
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

That is really expensive! I have no doubt it is better than delrin in almost every aspect. Let me know if you get some. Or if you have some leftover, I don't mind getting a very small sample for test.
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 11:48 AM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Torlon eh? Std length of 4 foot...spendy in diameters around an inch.

What about Rulon? http://www.mcmaster.com/#6362k224/=5y01j6

Scott, who can't make up his mind...if I don't need the part, then I don't need a bushing...Hmmmm...
Some pricey stuff, but if it works well and doesn't need to be replaced as often (as per Risi Competitions claims) it is much cheaper than having to replace inferior bushings. So, despite to higher front end cost, overall the Torlon bushings might save quite a bit of money considering you won't have to spend money over and over again. In addition, you'll have fewer R and R sessions.
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

And Aurora spherical bearings cost???
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Quadrant has a nice site. Here is some fab info on plastics:

http://www.quadrantepp.com/assets/gl...ning_Guide.pdf
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

that doesnt seem very expensive at all for a 4 foot piece. I have some derlin bushings that i had custom made and im always worried about wear, although they have held up well. this stuff looks great
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Originally Posted by descartesfool
Quadrant has a nice site. Here is some fab info on plastics:

http://www.quadrantepp.com/assets/gl...ning_Guide.pdf
After reviewing the mechanical properties of Torlon 7130 vs. 4435, which shows 7130 to have almost double the strength (flexural, compressive, tensile, shear), double the elastic modulus, double the fatigue strength S-N, half the creep, twice the hygroscopicity(advantage 4435), a coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE) close to that of steel (4435 has a CTE similar to Aluminum), and 50% more hardness (think bearing) compared with 4435, I then wanted to know the wear rates at difference stress levels and guess what? The 7130 wasn't listed but 4435 was and showed it to be better than the rest of the tested Torlon compositions.

I just wondered why Torlon 7130 wasn't wear tested considering it should have great potential. The reason seems to be that 4435 and a couple of other Torlon types have been specifically formulated for bearings where apparently 7130 is not.

Coefficient of friction: .10 (kinetic) lubricated

Check out page 31 of the design guide for proper shaft clearances: http://www.drakeplastics.com/torlon_design_guide.pdf
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Originally Posted by JuanTushag
that doesnt seem very expensive at all for a 4 foot piece. I have some derlin bushings that i had custom made and im always worried about wear, although they have held up well. this stuff looks great
Remeber, those prices are per linear foot: e.g. the Torlon 4435 is $100 per foot for 1-inch diameter.
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Originally Posted by descartesfool
And Aurora spherical bearings cost???
The bad *** racing specific Aurora PNB-9T that I use in my DC2/EG UCA parts are $34 or so each. The PWB-10T that I use in my front and rear DC2/EG LCAs parts are about $35 each. But those are the really nice ones. Their COM series stuff is much cheaper. I installed a set of COM-9T bearings in the UCAs in my race car to see how they last. Those are only about $14 each. Unfortunately, I can't afford to race my car currently. Hehe.
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Old Feb 23, 2010 | 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac
I just wondered why Torlon 7130 wasn't wear tested considering it should have great potential.
Maybe the fact that it has carbon fiber in it (abrasive) has something to do with that.
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Old Feb 24, 2010 | 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Torlon 4435 as a suspension bushing material for the track

Originally Posted by beanbag
Maybe the fact that it has carbon fiber in it (abrasive) has something to do with that.
Actually, 4435 has between 10 and 30% carbon fiber composition but it turns out that it also has some other constituents such as graphite that puts it in the low friction bearing grade. And, as it turns out, Torlon 7130 would make an excellent bearing material if used with a hardened shaft, which is typically done in bearing applications anyway.

For any technical inquiries, you can talk with Steve at Drake Plastics like I did. They can also machine to your specs. any bushings. I can't guarantee it will be cheap, but you will get an excellent product if you do your research and truly understand your application.
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