Sorted

 

you got to search ton of info here gl.

 

street/track or race car?

 

Correct!!

You don't 'have to' mod the suspension, but not doing so requires you to run spring rates around ~1000lbs front with a huge bar, and ~4000 to 4500lbs rear springs with a huge ARB.

And then the car becomes, "the scariest thing i've ever driven" (quoted from several of the best FWD road racers in the US)

 

Is that the reason why RealTime Racing didn't stick with them very long, and went in favor of the TSX?

 

RTR pretty much had 100% new suspension design on those ones, it got rid of most of the issues.

I think they switched to the TSX because that is what honda wanted them to do, and because the tsx is a 'better' platform.

 

I feel almost any chassis design can be made to work,some are just better than others.It takes alot more time and development.It also depends on the user and thier budget, knowledge and experience in developing a chassis.All cars have a downfall,the EG/DC is not perfect,it has it's issues as well.Look at the new KIA in Grand am.. similar suspension as the DC5,more like a cobalt though.

Realtime and most of the Grand-am teams use the most current chassis that Honda offers them support in.Basically a "you give me the car and/or parts and I will run it" type deal.However most don't think the new civics and tsx are all the rave either aside from their awesome engines and transmissions,since they take quite a bit of development as well.

The DC5 is a simple car actually and is a very ridgid,roomy,and safe shell.The downfall is the suspension(if you look at it in a negative way).If built right it can be competitive I feel. The DC5 compact suspension is just not as ideal as the famous double wishbone we have come to know;with it's simple "off the shelf" capabilities. It takes more time,and in some cases driving skill, to handle such a feat.

 

The problem with DC5 is that when you lower the car, the rear starts to gain a lot more static camber than the front. So the race teams have to alter the suspension geometry (and in many classes it is illegal to do) to make the car race worthy.

Depending on your class, I would say stick with the EG you already have.

 

Doesn't the 96-00 Civic chassis do this as well?

Would crash bolts and/or camber plates up front "fix" the issue?

 

From the RTR guys/Kensai(now compass360)/MSN/Fenton guys the biggest complaint they had was 'rear steer', and front bump steer.

RTR 'fixed' the issues.


MSN/Fenton just sprung the cars incredibly stiff.

Kuno Wittmer's comment on the RTR RSX was something along the lines of "It is the scariest car i have ever driven but when you get it right it is damn fast."

Endicot (SP) said that same thing basiclly at homestead. The driver i was working with commented to him how hairy the car looked coming off the banking and his response was "that corner is the worst, but this thing is just scary every corner."

Christian Miller drove one and said the same thing too.

So the issues can be worked around (crazy rates, or redoing suspension geometry) but it is not a car i would willing pick/switch too.

Even though i love the cars and the way they look.

I had my heart set on building one, but after talking to the above teams i changed my mind.

 

they took development (what new car doesn't??), but several teams loved the TSX. It doesn't have horrible suspension issues.

And from drivers who have driven the RSX, TSX, Civic, the only one that gets a "no thanks I'll pass." is the RSX.

Only real issue with the civic is the brakes, but pretty sure they know why things are happening.

I can't think of any issues/complaints from 5 or 6 drivers i worked with on the GA TSX.

 

Interesting,more info please Jimmy...I know you have seen the Davis RSX and others in person.Which successful cars have stock rear pickup points besides the King/Davis cars?

The frontal issues can be resolved with the right off the shelf parts,I want more info on the rear.

-Justin,who has an RSX shell in his backyard that is getting peed on by cats.

 

Im not advocating hurting a cat but if its peeing on my car....
I might find a bean bag gun or something...
Rotten ***** cats!

 

Davis/king=MSN= Fantasy Junction bought it and runs it in the WERC series.

Fenton Motorsports= The camo RSX that ran H1 at nationals was an old Fenton car (which was built for a Mid-Ohio "school car"). Fenton is old school GA, running the RSX the first year it was offered in 04 IIRC. And could hang with the best of them.

Kensai/compass360=

Honda R&D West

All of them ran massive springs and bars all around the car.

MSN had 4000lbs or 4500lbs springs, Fenton had the same, and I am 90% sure Kensai/compass did to. Ray usually doesn't run a "rear stiff" setup, but IIRC even he had to on the RSX. And Honda R&D ran something like 2800 or 3200. Fantasy junction dropped down to 3500lbs IIRC.

All of them also run a huge speed way bar with VERY short lever arms.

The MSN guys were always pitted next to us it seemed and were friendly. They would joke/kid about "these are only cars out here that have a VERY simple solution to make them turn, make sure the suspension DOES NOT MOVE and you have a wicked fast race car."

The R&D cars where quick too, but I am not sure that they don't have anything done to the rear of them now. I know when they first raced they had stock rear suspension.


The way to make an RSX handle is simple

Moton/JRZ 3ways
1000-1200lbs spring for the front
3500-4500lbs springs for the rear

Biggest sway bars you can find/make for the front and rear and your set.


One of the MSN cars is in shambles and FS on the east coast, the guy who bought says the car/fwd cars are the devil and can't be reliable. The other one is out here.

Both of the surviving Fenton Cars are in Utah, i think.

The Kensia/compass cars are/where being ran in the CTCC. One of them is FS, and is now Silver.


This conversation just made me remember that MSN/Davis/King had a TSX they ran. I have NO IDEA where that car went.

EDIT:

Also the RTR RSX was ran on a rather stock rear suspension for a while, like when they were running the sentras still. I also remember them running rates around what was posted above.

FYI there is a guy on k20a.org with the rear drawings for the suspension from RTR, he was email them to people who where interested. Only bad thing is that there drawing show the important stuff, but it isn't as simple as "blot this on and go."

 

The Utah guys were fast when they came to BW with us for a weekend.They have never been there before either,so I was impressed.I never got to get much info from them,and since they bought the cars pre-built there was no heavy data disclosed on the builds.

I really don't know anyone else but Greg's AEM rsx that runs locally.That car was hanging with Kiwi and I at AutoClub and iirc it is H2 trim.Tom Paule was driving at that time of course.

 

All of the big/front runners in GA keep ABS(including all the above mentioned teams), helps with rain and 'new drivers' and such.

 

They must be relocated or using the bosch ABS units.I can't seem to locate ABS(boxes or wheel sensors) in any pictures I have of RTR(thx Cluade),THR-W or King cars.

 

World Challenge do not allow ABS, thus don't look for it on World challenge cars

 

Thanks for the clarification Andrie

 

If one wants a dual purpose street/track car... stay far far away from the DC5.If you are making it a pure racecar,then the minor obstacles can be overcome.

Bad is such a harsh word.Let's say the under-developed suspension has it's challenges,that does not really make it bad.Most who say the car handles bad have never owned or driven a RSX chassis and are basing their info on what other people say.Those who have driven them with the right setup understand the potential in the car.It takes an deep understanding of suspension geometry and car handling to see the pluses and minuses of the DC5 suspension.
It takes time,money and development as with ANY chassis,so you can have a great handling DC5,but it will take a stiffer than average setup which can be trouble if you are not up to the skill level required to drive a "go-kart" like setup.

I actually have one,I will build it eventually for H1 next year. I have my reasons why I am choosing to move to this chassis from my EJ1 and I like the positives the car brings to the table,so a few peoples' negative input only motivates me to take the challenge on.

 

great info in all of your posts. i literally **** myself at those spring rates.

i know its a tsx only thing i have in my photobucket. idk where the memory card would even be..but i know i took some pics of the rear of the rsx. i thought the pick up points were lowered on the body. cant remember though exactly.

 

Egezzy - I wouldnt go by the RTR cars anymore...They are obsolete now.The over-engineering has caught up with SWC.

Weel - That is a basic guidline,there is much much more involved than that such as caster and bump steer and rear toe changes.Mine will be nothing like that..But that's the jist of it.Most here have rules to build to so we choose parts carefully to be legal, and that's why many choose chassis carefully as well. Honestly,I would recommend you sticking with your EG chassis...

 

Compass 360 RSX was not using more than 3000lb in the back...We have one of them...We had 2200-2500-3000 spring for the back in our parts package.

 

You do have a point there.Here we can go to the local Ecology junkyard and pull your own parts from a sea of civics.So there is an abundance of DA/EG/EJ,but ED/EF are getting scarce.As old parts get more difficult to find the prices begin to go up as well and soon the new stuff will be much cheaper than the old.Example - I got my RSX rolling shell for half the cost that a rolling EG/EK/DC shell is going for these days...

I got my DC5 because I think it is good.Just like I swapped to K series a few years ago because I thought it was better. I remember when I got my first 94 GSR and was amazed how much better it was then my 89 civic Si...then later I thought my LS/Vtec engine was the bomb,untill I tried K series.

So why continue to use a pager in an age of cell phones...

 

Pagers can't be tracked and tapped like cell phones? A pager is easier on the budget than a cell phone?