Last month I did my first autocross event with my EF. The car has front biased rates, and a front sway only and was on Z1's. It seemed like the car wanted to plow at almost every corner.

This time ill be on Fuzion ZRi's in the rear and may use my Kumho Xs's up front on a staggered setup. Im going to miss the all around grip but im thinking having a sticky tire up front and a lesser street tire out back may help.

I was used to being able to lift the throttle and letting the rear swing out and get back on it and keep going in my H22 Civic. Im not sure if it will be as easy with less power, and may result in spins.

Im also unsure if I should disconnect the front bar.

 

It sounds like the car is set up to understeer, but have you tried slowing down a bit more on entry? If it is really plowing every corner I'm willing to bet you could stand to loose some entry speed.

 

^ thats what i was i thinking...

what size is your front sway bar?
what rates are you running?
are you running a rear sway bar at all?

 

LOL you have it backwards hondas are prone to understeer its the nature of FF you have to run looser front and a tighter rear or less or no sway bar in front and a big sway bar in the rear. Do your research on HT and look for set ups and front sway bars and leave you tires alone.

 

Whoa some hostility in here.

The car is indeed setup to understeer. Iv only had it for 2 months, no rear sway and a stock front sway, not sure what they are on Dx's.

The tires are really my only option for this next event to the wise *** above, aside from disconnecting the front sway. My last car had no front sway and a 22mm rear.

I dont think im overdriving the car as well. Im just trying for a band aid rear rotation for this next event.

 

Lower front and raise rear tire pressures.

 

From his OP it is apparent he is already away the car is not setup properly and he is looking for some quick fix advice. Raising rear pressures and lowering front will help for sure. That being said I still feel like if it is "plowing" through every corner just try lowering your entry speed. Sure you may not think you are overdriving the car, but if it is plowing corners, you are. The way you used to drive your H22 car just may not work for this one, but you have to adjust and seeing as this car isn't setup properly you may have to adjust more then you think. Start out slow, slower then you think necessary and pick up speed run by run. You'll never go fastest on your first run out (i know i don't.), so slow it down at first and be smooth, time will drop as you get through more runs.

 

umm i dont see where he stated honda tended to oversteer. i think he has done his research..he is just in a new chassis that doesnt react the same as his previous.

im with the first guys and the last on. keep the car as it was at the last event. try changing your line if it "plows" and air pressure idea is great too. destroy the cones!

 

Id be open to keeping the car the same as last time. But I am replacing my current Z1's with something less sticky. I have a pair of Xs's that I ran up front on the H22, that are collecting dust right now, wasnt sure if it was worth a try to run a stickier tire up front and have less grip in the rear.

That or just run the ZRi's all around and make due with tire pressures and disconnecting the front sway.

 

I am sorry I did not try to come off hostle I just found it funny good luck

 

Your lift-throttle oversteer will behave pretty much the same, since the behavior of the car is due to weight transfer, not power. If you went to a lighter engine in the front, that weight transfer could be a little different, but the principle is the same.

Pressures would be first suggestion. If you're going to less sticky tires somewhere, you're giving up overall grip. While there is a limit, I don't know that that is the answer, especially for a street tire. I'd be surprised if you were generating THAT much grip in the back.

Disconnecting the front sway would be suggestion two, just to see what it does. Since the car does sound VERY front-biased, you might be fighting a losing battle (hard to tell with no specific details).

 

I have a CRX DX that did not come with a rear sway. I highly reccomend getting a rear sway for your car because it reduced understeer and really helped the car feel more neutral.

Factory sway sizes for EF
Civic rear sway = 13mm
CRX si rear sway = 15mm

 

There are definitely plans to get a rear sway, but not within the next month or 2.

 

Disconnect the front bar and drive a run or two with your sticky tires at the tire pressures you normally run at. Tune out the understeer by adding to the rear or removing pressure from the front.

 

i wonder when Nate (solo-x) will come in and give a chime?

I've run for the past 3 years with a front bar in my car. no problem with under steering unless i was braking to deep into the turn and coming in way to hot. my problem was snap over steer. that's right i said it, i get snap over steer. so much snap over steer that i spun into a curb (at an event).

my setup:
first, and second year with this car
all stock 90 ex, on falken 615's.
only thing different i did the second year was run a really aggressive toe out. like 1" total out (don't remember)


last year was the big jump:
Koni spss3 shocks
DA Integra front bar
205/55/14 hoosier's, and the old falken 615's when ever it rained or when ever i didn't feel like changing to the hoosier's on local events.
0 toe

this setup was for HS. like stated above, the only time i've ever under steered is when i was coming in to hot for the corner, or completely missed the line.

imop, like everyone else said, work on the tire pressure, but more then anything else, work on your self. keep that same setup and learn to drive. better yet, get someone else to drive your car. it will enlighten you on how to drive a different way, if you know what i mean.

 

You didn't hit the curb because of just snap oversteer, but also remember that area is always dirty with gravel and crap. Remember my gyser encounter with Adam's car? Same thing.

 

sure felt like it in the car, but true when you looked at the video it didn't.

 

my setup on my 95 civic hatch which is not an ef but still ff and had similar initial characteristics

running kumho xs 205/50 15

spring rates

425f
450r
koni sp3s

sway bars

21mm front
23mm rear

Transmission

Type r obviously with LSD

no understeer and pretty easily rotates the rear but i dont do autox anymore so you may want several opinions and try different setups. i have tried several and currently this suits me but may not suit you. I would add a large rear sway bar and leave the front on or try with just a rear and no front. Like i said trial and error led me to my setup i just wish i could increase rates but i cant go to the higher level konis. good luck and have fun!

 

The Ex comes with a rear sway right?

As for the last paragraph, this is my 3rd year autocrossing. The sole reason for me being out there is to improve my driving, I have swapped cars many a time. Enough of me defending myself though.


PS im going to lose my mind if someone suggests a rear sway one more time. Iv had the car for two months, believe me an St rear sway will be on the list soon lol.

 

no the EX doesn't have one. only the Si hatch and Crx Si had the rear sway stock.

but Destroyer, i've been doing this for 7 years total. the last 3 have been more serious. last year i started to do some national tours (did Arkansas, and New York). hopefully this year (money pending and positions available) im going to do a Pro solo (DC Pro) and one tour (New York). only time will tell if i can afford Nebraska Nationals.

take my advice. just keep the setup as it is now. run it for a whole year, get as much seat time as you can get. learn how to drive the car. then next year, it'll be easier for what parts and stuff that you'll need.

so, just run your car as is. just adjust the tire pressure and learn to drive that car. fix the driver first before fixing the car.

 

If tires are your only option then I would put the crappy ones in the back and also run really low pressure in the rear.

 

whooo Nebraska!

 

There really is no magic answer to this. If you have the same tire to run front and rear I would start there and play with tire pressures. You can lower the rears to get more rotation. If that helps then try raising your rear ride height a bit. This will get the weight moving forward a little quicker. You can also try running 0 rear to to a little bit of toe out to get the car to rotate. I have a little problem with tires that are so different front to rear. The Fuzion tires much harder than the MX's you have. This will allow for more rotation but not be easily controlled in the higher speed sections of the course. What I mean is as you are having the car rotate because of a simple a loss in mechanical grip once you cross the limits how do you get it back?

 

You said this better than I did.

Also LOL at the people who don't seem to recognize that you (Destroyer) will not be getting a rear sway...despite it being said repeatedly.

90_EX does have a valid point though: this is a new-to-you car, and will behave very differently from the coupe/sedan you used to have. Heck, going from one EG hatch chassis to another was a huge difference for me, I had to pretty much relearn the car. It might be that you have to adjust your driving style to accommodate some difference in vehicle behavior. These minor changes we're talking about (tire pressures, alignment, etc.) might be key to bridging that gap.

 

I didnt know the crx one was bigger