im getting ready to start my h2 build and was wondering if annyone has kept the power steering setup on there cars...i no almost everyone used the rack but was wondering if they use the power steering....if so is it worth it and how much horse power do u really loose

 

i know one of the H2 EGs up here has power steering and the driver/owner likes it. personally, i have never owned a track car with power steering and most people don't run it. some west coast guys run electric power steering set-ups

 

I remember some dynos from back in the day showing a ~8-10whp loss with power steering. Unfortunately, I don't remember ANY details about it.

I've driven both on track, and really prefer the feel of the manual stuff. It also makes the engine bay less cluttered, one less thing to fail, and saves weight. If I really needed to I'd go the route of the electric power steering Spence mentioned.

 

On my Type-R it was a loss of 2-3whp max, this is with an underdrive pulley on the power steering.

I was using a stock DX steering rack, lock to lock was 4.2 turns, it was horrid. I now have a new steering rack that's 2.9 turns lock to lock, power steering was a big difference.

 

i have a gsr rack ready to go in a stock cx cuz that rack sucks lol i am bulding an h2 car "well just starting the biuld"and i have everything to put the power sterring on it or just the looped rack ...if its that minamul as to 3 hp ill leave it on there ill guess ill dyno it with it hooked up and without and make a decision from there......i kinda like the power steering i feel if ur musclein the sterring wheel around u will be slower to react because u r pushing/pulling the wheel one way and u would need to react the opposite so if ur more ginger on the wheel u could make corrections faster and more precise...just my 2 pennys

 

<--- Using the stock CX rack without a problem. Even went back to it from a looped ITR rack. I just turn the wheel a little more for desired rotation

 

We are also unsure if we should take a power steering or if we should remove it.
The car will be used for circle track racing and is an F/I heaviliy modified EG civc.
Plan is to take 210/17" slicks so we are very unsure.

What do most people run in the US?

 

I run power steering on my car. Technically it's required in IT but most people remove it anyway. You get a better feel with manual, but I personally prefer the ease of power – I'm not going for national titles though either.

If you keep power steering, I would recommend putting a larger PS cooler on. I have a cooler off a Legacy '89 w/auto trans on my Integra. It's actually longer than the radiator and finned top and bottom. The stock cooler had no fins and was only 1/2 the length of the radiator...

I've heard of some people blowing a power steering line and crashing their car, but I think that's more of a function of owners not ever checking or replacing the power steering lines more than a failure point.

My recommendation. Are you in it more for the fun? Or are you in it more for the win? If it's the win, yank the power steering...

 

Just as a point of reference, my brother has had TONS of problems with his PS system over the years, and a lot of it was not due to lack of maintenance. Rather, excessive heat in the engine bay (he had a turbo near it) just cooked the hell out of everything, boiled the fluid, etc. It is something very common with the heavier, high hp RWD cars for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean it can't happen in a Honda too (especially a turbo one, with the pump right next to the manifold). YMMV, so on and so forth.

 

I can easily see that. These cars definately didn't fit in your brother's category though if you catch my drift...

 

hondaapi does have a turbo car though, and like I said, the manifold/turbo is right next to the PS pump. Which is just like my brother's car

 

@Stinkycheezymonkey

I personally do not fear problems with heat and P/S. We buildt several cars for customers with identical setups. All had P/S and we never had a single issue with that.
We got a nice manifold design and the pump can be heat shielded as you can see in the picture of the car I run in 2009.

The crazy thing is that we NEVER buildt a car without P/S and so we got no comparrison :-)

This time we shall build a heavily modified, buildt from scratch EG for a customer which shall get 210/17"slicks and a 450hp turbo race only setup.
This guy asked me if we want to take a P/S or not.
And I´m so unsure what to tell him ???

Maybe I can do a build thread of the car we build for him if you guys like ?

 

I currently run a air-cooled,P/S setup on my H1 K powered car,and I won't go without it! I lost a proven measely 2 HP on a dynapack with OEM honda belt driven p/s.Thanks for the idea Andrie!
The consitency and ease of steering I gained is much worth the small loss IMO.I am less fatigued after a session,and at high speed the car is very stable and comfortable.Not to mention a better ratio on the rack since it is P/S also. A win win.

Maybe a good heat exchanger will help with the turbo heat.I run a cooler because K series header is right next to the rack and gets glowing red heating up the racks' fluid.So I run a P/S cooler and it has been great.

 

I used to run it, but I removed it and now I would never go back. It has so much more feel.

 

hondaapi, can you get a closer pic of the shielding you're describing?

I'm looking forward to getting my own turbo stuff finished, to see how the problems I've read about US Honda guys having heat issues compares to your experiences.

As for a build thread, they are always welcome

 

For those who are having PS overheating issues, it is very common (Adam, I KNOW I've mentioned this to Case on a number of occasions) to put a cooler in the return line of the PS system.

I used to help a guy in SSC who DESTROYED PS pumps all the time until I put a cooler in it. All was well after that. (In a 6 cyl camaro just fyi)

s

 

I ran power stock power steering in my k20 civic for over year, until I moved to K24. It won't fit on the K24 as it is taller and hit the hood. So I revert to electrical, thanks to Derek at Hondata.

Now I run a TSX and run stock power steering. I originally use a small cooler for the P.S. when I had the civic. But found out it wasn't needed so I took it off. I never ran cooler ever since, and I checked the reservoir after a run and it is only warm to the touch.

Like Justin said, I can be more precise with the steering. I remember, when I first come to HC, I was the only one running P.S. Everyone made fun of me, but now, half the field runs it.

 

Andrie and Justin, just for comparison's sake, have either of you run the manual racks, or just the looped/de-powered power racks?

 

Stinky,

this is not my first race car, you know

Yes, I ran the civic before with manual rack and looped. Go around ALMS paddock and see almost everyone runs power steering. Anything to make the life of the driver easier is better. Try to write a white board with 10 lbs marker, is it easier? Which one you have more control?

We live in 21st century. There are lots of driver aids that were invented so the car or driver can perform better. If the rule allows it, it is your loss not to run them. If the rule allows me to run ABS, I would in a heart beat. There is a reason why they were banned. They give a clear advantage. We as human always learned from the past and try to make it better.

It is baffling to me of some people resistant to technology. Those kind of people are usually the same ones who like to use mechanical gauges, instead of electrical. All modern data logger uses electrical. They are better, accurate and faster. Those same people like to use dial gauge $50 tire pressure gauges, where it is proven over and over again that the digital $12 works better and more accurate.

 

I drove Andrie's old car, now Graham's car. I flipped the PS off for a lap and it was a STRUGGLE to put the car where i wanted it. Flipped it on and i feel in love.

It's the reason i put it in my car.

 

I have,and no comparison.I don't have to have arms like the tools on the show "jersey shore" to turn my wheel in the paddock,lol.Feedback from the road is much less,meaning less fighting the wheel during a run and less fatigue.Andrie said it best.

 

Interesting. When I had PS I felt that I had a vaguer steering feel, and actually didn't like it. Then I went to the looped PS rack, which was fun for awhile, but became a total hassle after awhile. Now I'm using a manual CX rack, which seems to be the best of both worlds (to me), and I'm not struggling to turn the wheel. Its been awhile since I had PS though, maybe I should give it another shot for an accurate comparison.

Andrie, I ask for your opinion because I respect it so much. I know you've been around the block many times and know what you're talking about

 

Hey, don't take my words as gospel. I should have add a disclaimer that Your Mileage May Vary.

 

im glad this brought such a good debate up i will run power stering and make a cooler for it i personally like it on my del sol as opposed to the cx rack on my hatch i feel if urputting so much effort in turning the wheel u will be inconsistant and make more mastakes......plus i like to lean my seat back and throw gang signs....lol

 

Oh, I'm not. Just saying that you speak from experience and testing, rather than one-sided blind opinion. It's a valid data point, in other words.