I'm sure this has probably been covered before (maybe?), but I really couldn't think of what exact criteria to use in the search function, so I'll throw it out here, and if someone knows of an existing thread, please point me towards it and lock this one.

Straight to the point. I need more negative camber in my front wheels. 1995 Civic EX Coupe in ITA trim. Only way I can legally do this is with offset bushings. I happen to have a friend with a lathe, who can make exact copies of my ES upper A-arm bushings out of delrin, and bore an offset hole through them, to my specifications.

Problem is, I never got anywhere near Trig when I graduated high school some 18 years ago, but I know the lower ball joint will be the pivot point, and it will be some sort of measurement between the upper ball joint and the inner upper A-arm pivot point.

I'm pretty sure someone has done this math already. Can someone tell me how much linear offset in the upper bushing will translate to x number of degrees of negative camber, or at least how to measure it accurately myself? I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's not linear, but, to put it plainly, I currently have -1.5 degrees of negative camber just from lowering the car to the minimum ride height, and I need to get somewhere in the -2.5 to -3.5 range to stop wearing out the outside edge of my Nitto NT-01s. Nitto recommends ideally -2.5 to -5.0 degrees of camber.

 

I'm not positive, but I don't know that you'll be able to legally get that much in an IT car, short of bending the upright in a press.

 

Bemding the knuckle= the IT hotness

 

At your ride height, you probably need at least a 1/4" offset per degree. You'll have to think about how to keep that bushing from rotating, and have some ability to adjust it for symmetry.

 

what he said...

 

If you drill the hole offset and then drill and tap a hole in the control arm for a set screw, then you can rotate the bushing once it is installed in order to adjust the amount of camber. We put such bushings in the upper rear control arms of the STS Miata I was running last year, and they guy who machined the bushings for us put a hexagonal edge on one end of the bushing so we could easily grab it with a wrench and turn the bushing. It worked very nicely.

Bending the knuckle would be easier though.

 

remember this formula for next time:

amount of movement=length of lever * degrees / 57

This also works when you are mucking with toe

 

Don't you mean the upper arms? You could bend the knuckle, that would be a trick for me to see. But bending or cutting and re-welding the upper arms would be easier...

Or is the difficultly why "bending the knuckle=the IT hotness"??

 

You could also just borrow or buy a cheap eBay set of adjustable uppers. Mess with your camber and do some open track until you have it right where you want it. Then take your measurements from the adjustable uppers. Instead of guestimating. Even with trig you can't really get a good measurement off the suspension to get it right where you want it...

 

Nope he means the knuckle. A Japanese friend has told me that this is relatively common practice on double wishbone hondas in Japan too.

 

Adjustable upper arms are not IT legal, no? Hence going through the trouble of bending the knuckle.

 

Well, technically bending any suspension component isn't legal. Including the knuckle.

But I'd just see bending the upper arms a lot more easier than bending the knuckle. Less force required plus it would be easier to "hold" in the press. And if you don't have a press, at least for the rears, it would easy to do a cut and re-weld...

Regarding the adjustable uppers, it's just so he could get an exact measurement if he's going to fab his own. Even with trig it will still be somewhat of a guess when you add everything up...

 

On an EF, the following is true: 9/16" = 1.625 degrees. That is derived from measuring a set of Ingall's adjusters for the lateral and knowing what range they give. But it is correct empirically. I slotted my upper control arms and moved the pivot .21" and got .6 degree camber change.

To the OP, you have more room to offset the lower control arm bushing, as it is larger than the uppers. But it also moves along more than one axis, so Delrin is not your friend there. Urethane will net the most offset w/o bind. IT allows bearings, but once the race is in there, you don't have much room to offset.

Sounds to me like your steering knuckle will be hitting a curb real soon...

--Andy

 

The idea is that a bent knuckle could've gotten that way from an impact A re-welded upper arm could not be. A bent upper arm would also contact the shock tower like crazy under compression.

 

bringing this back up just to cover all of my options.

The only thing that worries me about making lower control arm offset bushings is that it affects the axis that the shock moves in, doesn't it? Don't want bent shock shafts.

Are these considered IT legal?: http://www.progressauto.com/products.../productID/377

As for bending the knuckle, which is what I will most likely end up doing if the progress adjusters aren't allowed....what technique works best? Do you bend a little, install the knuckle and check static camber, and pull it off to add more, or is there an easier way to measure how much you bend for the amount of camber change you want. I mean, an easy, yet fairly accurate way I can do in my garage without fancy equipment and tools? I need to do something to stop wearing out the outside edge of my tires so quickly, but I don't want to be breaking knuckles, either.