Hey guys I'm new to any type of road racing and been searching a lot in what class I like to get into but I found out through several threads that's it's best to race stock and build as learn. I'm just curious as to what is needed to race in the stock class? Is the car really stock? To be honest I would like to have ek hatch with a engine swap and suspension set up but with full interior. What class would that be consider? What about a eg hatch with the same set up as the ek expect no back seats, what class would that be? I would like to join time attacks and road racing events but I don't want to compete in like unlimited class ans such. Thanks for the help

 

If i were you, i would start out by making sure your car is in good mechanical condition and find your nearest autocross. There is a lot you can learn even if you plan on eventually road racing. Once you have done a few auto-x's, sign up for a track day and continue refining your driving skills at higher speeds. After that you can go for broke and start doing "time attacks" or road racing.

 

Thanks for the tip but still curious as to what class would my two examples be in. The ones I meantion in my first post. Would it be like street class? Or limited class. Do these classes also appy to autocrossing as well? Thanks

 

Looks like you have been reading and thats a good thing.
Few questions you need to ask yourself
Decide what sanctioning body you want to run in.
Honda Challenge, SCCA etc... Check the requirements for each, and what fits what you currently have.
You can run in the Solo ranks ( auto x) they do have a street class.
Time attack.. you'd have to read up on their requirements im sure they have a street class but again you cant just jump on the track with out any experience and just run.

You say road race...but you want to stay stock in class.
I dont know much about SCCA but in NASA.. taking for granted you race a honda.
Honda Challenge is what most people on this forum run.
There are no full interior or street classes in HC.
All cars have to use an approved/inspected roll cage, and other mandatory safety equipment.
There are near stock spec cars but that pertains mostly to the engines.
For the specs on cages etc I'd have to refer you to the HC CCR's and select a class that would be suited for what you have.
Don't worry about a swap right now. Run whats under the hood.

You are correct in running stock for now and get some seat time (lots of seat time)
It takes alot more time to go through the ranks of HPDE and to get your competition license.
A competition license isnt something easilly obtained after a few events.
This can take a while to accomplish... depending on your experience, and abilities.
Now I have heard of people shelling out a couple grand on a long weekend and do those "bonderbarberrussell" schools and get a comp license at the end of the weekend, but unless you have a butt load of money falling from your behind it isnt something commonly done.
IMO a long weekend on a track with no experience does not produce a race driver.
Seat time and plenty of it will make you a better driver.

Check out the FAQ sticky that stinky wrote up there is plenty of information there to get you moving in the right direction. Keep reading!

 

Your two examples up above would put you in SM(for auto-cross), with the removal of the back seat you might end up in a a perpared class.

For roadracing noth much of an option for what your describing. Nothing in SCCA, and NASA you'd wind up in some PT class (which is a very different/wierd/non tradition class in terms of how they class the cars)

I'd go out to on autox check it out, talk to people. Go out to an SCCA race weekend talk to people, and go out to a Nasa weekend and talk to people. Being there out at the places you'll get a much better idea for 'what it takes'. From there decide what you'd like to do.

 

Great responses guys EGROM, where are you reading about street and limited class, that might help us nail down exactly which series you're referring to.

 

Sounds like he is referring to something like Redline Time Attack or Super LapBattle, would be my guess. Most of the guys in the other subforums refer to that as "road racing". From the looks of it, he may not actually be interested in wheel-to-wheel.

 

sorry im just confused, i thought the classes were all the same. i want to eventually attend the time attack trials and be in some racing events but id like to keep my car like the examples above. dont know what sanctioning body is appropriate for the examples i mentioned. thats why im asking what class would those examples be considerd or would they be bumped to a class where there not competive. if it helps the tracks that ill be attending will be at the new jersey motorsport park. i have read some of the rules but dont understand about the point system. i understand that no turbos or "NOS" modifications are allowed but what about engine and suspension parts.

Wheel to wheel?

thanks guys

 

time attack, time trials, hill climbs, etc... are all contests of lap times. Fastest lap TIME wins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM3AnTS1vBw

"wheel to wheel" = honda challenge, speed world challenge, formula 1, etc... These are racing series where the car that finishes the race first wins. These cars race against each other wheel to wheel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkLmqO_nI24

auto-x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4GnZ...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzZ-_xe3Ygk

 

My advice would be to start out driving in some HPDE events. These are non-competitive "High Performance Driver Education" events, where you're just learning how to drive fast around the track, without competing (no timing, no trophies, etc). They do not have any requirements regarding equipment, other than that your car must be in good mechanical shape, as verified by a mechanic who signs off on an inspection form. As long as your car is in good shape, the only thing you really need to do to participate in such events is to make sure you've flushed (replaced) your brake fluid within the previous six months or so. And if your brake pads don't have a lot of thickness on them, it's a good idea to bring an extra set with you so you can change them if you wear them out. (If you don't have mechanical skills or tools with you, other folks at the track are usually happy to lend you tools and talk you through it.) But that's really about all you need to go out and have a good time at it and start learning how to drive around a track.

Once you start building up experience in HPDE events, then you can start thinking about whether you want to begin actual competition and what changes in equipment etc are required. Or, you can continue doing HPDE events, but as you gain experience you might start thinking about performance upgrades to your car, such as in brake pads, tires, suspension, etc.

Groups with extensive national programs of HPDE events include NASA, BMW CCA (which does not limit participation or membership to BMW owners), and Chin Motorsports. There are also smaller groups running HPDE events at one particular track or in one part of the country; for example, in the Northeast, Trackmasters holds novice schools (as well as open track events) at the Glen, and PDA also holds schools at tracks like Lime Rock.

HPDE events don't have "classes" of vehicle; they will put you in a run group based primarily on your experience (e.g. you'll start out in the novice run group). For a more detailed explanation of how an HPDE event works and what you need to know, the NASA website has some good articles. Click here and scroll down to the links under the heading "HPDE Articles" and read those articles. Then feel free to ask more questions!

 

Nice vidoes. anything on what I have mentioned on my last post?

Good guys here thanks for the info

 

I feel like I need to make a few counter arguments. I've done the 4 day Bondurant school. Yes it's really expensive, but it's an experience you will never forget. Think of as an investment in yourself, like a college degree. Even if you never turn a wheel in anger you will still have the skills.

The problem with moving up through the HPDE ranks is that it takes so long to get students to get a grip on car control and to learn how to handle their self at the limit. DE events have to encourage people to drive conservatively or there would be complete carnage and we would never get insurance for the events. At a professional school they will put you out On 20 acres of asphalt in a skid car. You will learn more about car control in a half a day than you would in a year of DE's.

I don't think it's fair to say that 4 day drivers school grads are not prepaired to race. I've seen people go from no track experience to moving along at a good pace in a Formula Ford in 4 days.

If you really want to race, go to a few events to see if you like the people and the atmosphere. If you like it then get yourself to a pro school. Tour friends will wonder how you got so fast all of a sudden.

 

well iven been reading the HC rule book and checked out H1, so on cars are pretty much gutted out. there seems to be no class that my two examples can fall under expect for like an open track. is there any sanctioning body that my two examples fall under and still be competive?

thanks

 

Not for wheel-to-wheel competition, no. For Time Attacks and time trials, sure. You might be competitive in Performance Touring, depending on what kind of power the car is making.

More importantly though, get SOME kind of experience. The competitiveness of the car doesn't mean diddly squat at this point, since you don't know what the heck you're doing behind the wheel.

Unfortunately for you, being the middle of winter and in the Northeast, there are no racing series currently being attended (except maybe some ice racing). If you can hook up with a local group, maybe check out an indoor karting event as a cold-weather introduction. Try the Northeast NASA group for starters.

 

hey thanks stinky...lol...well ive been looking more into the performence touring group but cant figure out there point system. engine swaps to the civic puts the car in ptd/c but im not sure if my examples would be competive...i read a thread about who a rx7 with a ls1 swap was running in a ptd/c. the kind of power i would like to be running is 200hp. im so for the trouble...i will be looking into attending class very soon. yea here in the northeast its bad now but thers always spring...if anything theres the summer! lol

on the side note which would you guys recommend i should start with auto crossing or joining NASA class for track?

once again good stuff here.

 

For the Performance touring class is you swap engines or go FI or what have you then you have to submit your vehicle weight in competition form and a dyno graph then they re-class you based on power/weight ratio. then from there you add points to yuor new base class for suspension/interior/exterior/tires and such. you'd start in PTF i believe with a 92-00 civic hatchback. 99-00 SI's start in PTE** if i'm not mistaken.

but for now i'd just get out there and learn!
and make your car reliable/safe i'd also probably invest in an extra set of cheap wheels with good rubber so you don't waste through your street tires.

 

Well, its not that simple. Unless you have one of the pre-approved swaps you have to get the car classed based on a dyno chart and weight. That will get you a new base class, where you can then assess more points for suspension and so on. To do that, you have to send Greg Greenbaum an email with all your information. You can find him (and the details of the information he needs) here: http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12638

Unless the car is VERY heavy, I don't know how an LS1 RX7 would be classed in PTD or PTC. My Civic @ ~2300lbs and 165whp is in TTD (equivalent to PTD). Even at a lowly 300whp, an LS1 RX7 would have to weigh in over 4000lbs. That is just ridiculous to even attempt. With ~200whp you'll probably be in PTC or PTB, depending on your weight. I think Bookler's car classes into PTC, but I don't know how much power he makes.


Either is fine really. There are pluses and minuses to both. ANY experience driving a car in anger in a controlled setting is what is important right now. The indoor karting thing will seriously be a good start, given the weather in your area now. I kart regularly, and it is a BIG help.

 

Ditto the indoor karting. That will teach you car control, proper use of brakes (i.e. not overbraking), momentum driving, and how to find "the line". Plus the kart track probably has a good school with the local hot-shot. You might even find that you like karting as a entrance to motorsports in general. You could tow your entire kart setup to the track with your Civic, and in the days of $400+ entry fees you could run a weekend of karts for close to that.

EGROM, it looks like you want to race, and welcome to the addiction. Stuff like time trial/time attack is probably going to work out with your street driven car, but be very careful if you plan to drive your street car to race. In time trial you get to pick the risks you take, in wheel to wheel you stand a lot better chance of being taken out by someone else’s risky maneuver. I’ve driven my Showroom Stock racecar to the track, but only with a backup plan, AAA towing and an extra car at home.

Autocross is a great entrance to “real car” motorsports. Coupling that with some local indoor karting racing series will give you your fix for a while. Watch your budget, DON’T GO RACING ON CREDIT CARDS, and have fun.