I need more rear slip angle so here is my dilemma:

There is a used 24mm ASR adjustable rear sway bar for sale for $120 plus shipping. It comes with energy suspension bushings and spherical endlinks. Since i only have a BSQ mounting kit im worried about sub-frame tearout on my 2000 integra LS.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/pts/1524232071.html

I figure i can sell my 22mm ITR bar with stock hardware for about the same price and end up with a better bar...?

I then started trolling around and found the Progress 24mm adjustable bar with their beefed up mounting bracket for $250. Since it attaches to the shock bolt the Progress sales rep. said it adds ~25% more stiffness than a 24mm attached to the LCA. Other bars out there are the Addco, mugen 26mm(too expensive), and speedway engineering bars, etc...

Is the progress worth $100 more? should i be concerned about the sub-frame on the DC chassis?

I need to keep the cost under control.

2000 Integra LS (ST class). DD/auto-x/light HPDE
15x7 wheels on re-01r tires
axxis ULT pads and ATE superblue
OTS Koni sports, GC coilovers& Hyperco 450f/500r springs (shock fork trick in the front for more travel)
lowered 1/2"-1"
ITR sway bar with rubber bushings and endlinks
stock alignment

Plans:
play with the rear camber(washers), and toe
front adjustable UCA's but not sure which kind or brand (i've heard about issues with bump steer).

 

i was also thinking about getting used stock UCA's and slotting the two inner bushing mounts for more camber...

 

The bumpsteer you've heard of probably has to do with putting the arms on the wrong sides. Some people intentionally do this to create positive caster, but it does come with the price of increased bumpsteer.

That being said, there are a good number of adjustable UCAs that do have various problems (like hitting the shock tower on shock compression). I will be slotting OEM arms, but I am also limited to that by the TT class I'll be in. I currently have Skunk2 upper arms, and they do contact the shock tower, and it does suck. A lot. If I remember right, Hardrace and SPC make arms that are designed better and do not have those issues, but they are also more expensive.

I don't have experience with either of the bars you mentioned, so I can't help there. However, the BSQ kit should be adequate in preventing subframe tear-out. I've used it on my cars for the last 5 years or so with no issue (just an ITR rear bar), and have a friend with an LS and ITR rear bar also with the BSQ kit having no issues.

 

ok so excuse my ignorance but is "i need more rear slip angle" meaning "i want the feel of more rear rotation"??

 

I'm assuming that

 

I supposed this is as good as time as any to ask the question...

I understand that the sway bar attaching to the shock decreases the leverage that the wheel has over it, there for increase the wheel rate of the bar.

But the are a few things that could/might make that wheel rate less.

1.) the lever arm is much much longer then the ITR/comptech/ASR/progress bar that attaches to the LCA. This reduces the rate of the bar.

2.) The center section, and over all length of the bar is longer then the ITR/comptech/ASR/Progress that attaches to the LCA. This also decreases the rate.


So are those two items over come by the change in leverage? Or is it a none issue,

 

yes...and yes i do know how to control it. wrong wheel drive is annoying me right now so i'm trying to overcome physics while still owning a cheap reliable "MTB in the hatch" car.

 

is there a write up on how to do this? i was thinking of buying used OEM UCA's and slotting them but if the method is tried and true i might just do it to my UCA's on the car.

do you think the BSQ kit will prevent tear out with a 24mm bar that has polly bushings and spherical end links?

 

you are correct. with the same diameter bar..one that connects to the damper bolt will have a longer leverage arm and one that connects at the lca will have a shorter leverage arm which will be the "stiffer" bar.

 

so the bar that connects to the LCA (like the ASR 24mm) will have an overall effect of making the rear end stiffer than the Progress 24mm assuming bushing material and endlinks are the same?

 

correct. everything else equal that statement is true.

 

I don't know of any writeups, I was just going to wing it once I got everything taken apart and examined. If I remember right, the arms are connected to the bushings with just a slot anyway (rather than a hole), so it should be pretty easy; just lengthen the slots.

As for the BSQ kit, I wouldn't expect it to give you any trouble, but I can't say that with 100% certainty. Based on my experience, I would say you'll be fine.

 

I talked to Progress(attaches to the shock bolt) a few days ago and the rep. claimed their unit was ~20%-25% stiffer than the ASR bar (both 24mm). I called back today claiming i wanted the less severe of the two bars and they still said their bar was ~20% stiffer than the ASR. I emailed ASR because they have no phone number and have yet to hear from them.

For the rear UCA, do i need to get a longer bolt for the washer trick, or am i OK with using washers on the OEM bolt?

 

Are you running all low speed or high speed turns? Sounds like mostly low.

The amount of slip angle needed depends on the speed of the turns,as a car needs less slip angle at high speeds to achieve maximum grip.
Lots of things determine slip angle like tire size,tire compound,car balance,suspension setup and track surface.

Also consider spring maybe what is needed.If you go to big with your sway bar you just eliminate droop basically.So,once a car has rolled to the point its three wheeling,there is no more roll resistance available for the rear and thus the front must take up the remainder.