My daughter's car is a 1999 Honda Accord V6, with 165,000 miles. It's an automatic, and she's only driven it one year. Within a month after purchase from the sleaziest, scariest man we have ever met (don't ask me), her CEL lit. She's not done a thing with it (to diagnose/fix). In addition, her Maintenance Required Light is lit. AND... the car starts fine; she puts it into 2nd to start driving since if it's in D3 it is very sluggish; however, on a "cold start" in 2nd the car jerks/hops... she'll slide it into D3 then D4 as she accelerates. On a "warm start" in 2nd there's no jerk/hop.

She pulled the codes at AutoZone:

P0141 Secondary H02S12 (Heated oxygen sensor - Bank 1 Sensor 2) circuit heater malfuncation
P1457 EVAP emission control system leak detected (control canister system)
P0758 Transmission stuck in 4th gear
P1361 Intermittent interruption in TDC 1 sensor circuit
P1366 Intermittent interruption in TDC 2 sensor circuit

These came with "probable causes."

I spoke with a fellow who "knows Hondas" and he says P1457 may be appearing because of P0141. Could you please comment on that, as well as the other 3 codes (are 0758, 1361, 1366 all transmission-related)? Does my above description of driving performance relate to these codes?

I've read a bit on this site and other sites, and it strikes me that instead of suggesting easy, very low-cost solutions (good ones too) a dealer/mechanic may instead suggest replacing solenoids that don't need to be replaced... In other words, how in the world do I get this car repaired properly without it costing me unnecessary $? We bought this car in ignorance; I don't want to have it repaired in ignorance. We live in St. Louis, MO. If you can suggest a mechanic that will help us according to our budget, we will be forever grateful.

but

THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME WITH SUCH A BROAD POST!

 

accord and acura cl trannies suck on those cars. theres a recall out ofr those and i've seen many of them replaced at work. it might be a little too late for you but its worth a shot. 1457 usually comes in when u leave the gas cap loose after putting gas in so make sure thats tight too. the o2 sensor is probably bad too gl

 

I would suggest that your primary concern should be the transmission. It is far and away the most (Possibly) expensive issue you've got; and I would suggest spending your diagnostic dollars on that first.
The rest of it can be attributed to loose connections, a secondary O2 sensor (not uncommon), and a possible vapor canister purge solenoid issue.

Although not all '98 and '99 Honda's exibited transmission problems, the issue did prompt Honda to extend the warranty on the vehicles in '00 to owners of record at that time.

I would suggest that the transmission will be the make/break issue for you with this vehicle. Determine your course of action based on what you find with the transmission.

Now, isn't that a slightly better response than "those transmissions sux" ?

P

** Do you have any recourse for going back after this guy? I suspect that this was a pre-exisiting condition.....

 

well put P. X2 ^^

 

Thank you, P. Adams, so much for your reply. (And you, too, TamaDrummer.) DaDreams, thanks for the interesting prospect that I might get some $ towards a repair (from Honda?).

P. Adams, to answer your question about recourse with the seller: as I stated, he's a scary man who is very irrational, emotional, defensive, etc. I truly am afraid of approaching him, even in a small claims court!

I submitted the same question(s) to JustAnswer.Honda and the two-part answer is below. He went with your approach, P.: check the transmission first before putting any $ towards the other issues. He gives me the impression that he thinks the transmission "has failed" and will need to be replaced; he also gives me approx. costs to replace, based on transmission source. He's negative about fixing a car this old.

My question to you: is it worth my taking the car to a dealer/mechanic to have the transmission trouble pegged? CAN they absolutely define the problem by code, and the solution with cost, without "exploratory surgery?" Or will I hear: "Based on the codes, we think it's THIS, but we'll need to get in there to really know"? I know the dealer told me it'd be $137 to diagnose. Well, that's not too much to find out what the transmission problem really is, but I am not prepared to spend more to find out what the problem really is!

Is it possible that (as a dealer told me a few months ago, without any diagnosis, no codes) perhaps only one or more solenoids may need replacement and could be relatively inexpensive?

Part 1 from JustAnswer.Honda mechanic:
Ok im going to be completely honest here to fix this car is going to cost alot of money.These cars are known for the transmissions to fail which sounds like what has already started to happen.As for replacing the solenoide the problem is internal not electrical.You need to have the transmission diagnosed correctly first then if it needs replacing then determine what you are going to do.If the transmission is bad and you can not afford to fix that then it does not make sense to fix the o2 sensor or the distributor or the evap leak .Unfortunately the transmission needs to be diagnosed first then you need to make a decesion from there.If the transmission has failed this will cost almost 3000 plus with a remanufactured unit or 1000 plus with a salvage unit .This is what needs to be checked next.

Part 2 Answer:
Ok the transmission at the dealer around 3000 includes labor.At an independant shop about 1000 to 1200 with a salvage unit.The only transmission code is the p0758 .The p1361 and p1366 is a problem in the distributor.The p0141 is for the o2 sensor and the p1457 is an evap problem which can be numerous different issues and will cost alot to find the problem.Unfortunately I can not reccomend a mechanic in the St Louis are try googling it .Honestly I do not reccomend putting this much money into a car this old.

Thanks Again, you guys! Damsel doesn't feel quite so helpless!

PS. P. Adams - have you been on this site for 3 hours?!

 

Take it to a Honda/Toyota only shop called Jamco. They are the best. The Techs that work there are from Japan. 5601 Southwest Ave
St Louis, MO 63139-1650
(314) 781-1781

 

HonBeer, I thank you for your suggestion. But could you take the time to answer the questions I asked:

My question to you: is it worth my taking the car to a dealer/mechanic to have the transmission trouble pegged? CAN they absolutely define the problem by code, and the solution with cost, without "exploratory surgery?" Or will I hear: "Based on the codes, we think it's THIS, but we'll need to get in there to really know"? I know the dealer told me it'd be $137 to diagnose. Well, that's not too much to find out what the transmission problem really is, but I am not prepared to spend more to find out what the problem really is!

Is it possible that (as a dealer told me a few months ago, without any diagnosis, no codes) perhaps only one or more solenoids may need replacement and could be relatively inexpensive?

thanks!!!

 

only you can answer that.....honestly....is it worhth it to you......i mean yes the transmissions were prone to failure on those year cars...but it is a honda.....you could get the transmission replaced and never have another probelm(after fixing the other issues)......the average mileage for a honda is about 350,000 miles which far surpasses alot of other companies.....heres what i came up[ with with a simply google search on price(note i didnt look around i just picked one)

SKU # : 318227
Year : 1999
Make : HONDA
Model : ACCORD
Part Details : Transmission A.T., 3.0L (6 cyl)

USED PART PRICE:
$1,599.99

yes its 1600 but that includes a 3 yr unlimited mile warranty on it.....i mean yea its 1600 plus shipping plus the labor to install it if you don't know anyone....i personally am not in the st louis area or even in MO or id throw it in for you cheap.......but your best course of action is

>diagnosis
>decide whether to repair or get rid of the car
>repair it or sell it depending on what you decide

now to ansewr your question about the solenoid....yes it COULD be....but why throw darts at it and waste money...the diagnosis at the dealership will give you an answer an more importantly a piece of mind

 

The problem you're up against (and I'm quite sure you understand this as well) is this: How much could you expect to get for the car if you sold it as it sits now? Could you even sell it, considering the economic times ...?

I look at it this way; based on my past experiences I would consider 165k approximately 50% of the usable life of the vehicle. I regularly see 400K.

So, what you'll need is to evaluate the condition of the rest of the vehicle. If it's a typical Accord, there shouldn't be any glaring problems other than what you've related. Everything else you relate is minor in the grand scheme of things.

P

 

used tranny from craigslist will cost about 300$ tops

finding a guy to put it in will cost another 300$

so 600$ done the cheap way

 

Thank you, P. I know the car isn't worth much, sold honestly.
So the question is whether to resurrect it or buy another.
One fellow says it's too old; another says but it's a Honda!

Okay, have another question: how can "I" evaluate the condition of the rest of the vehicle? What systems/parts should be evaluated? How much will that cost?

And what in the world is oblivion2kx talking about?! Is this possible?

 

What I might suggest?
Simple. Many shops offer "Free" vehicle inspections as a service to their customers (and an opportunity to sell you needed services). Many would also offer pre-inspection inspections (to locate and address issues which might become problematic during the state inspection.
If you have already formed a relationship which a local shop, ring them up and ask if they could give a complete vehicle inspection, to the point of checking everything; not the cursory "everything looks ok" kind of inspection.
You'd be looking for excessively worn brakes, leaking struts, worn suspension bushings, exhaust corrosion and missing hangers, signs that it was parked on dirt (chassis corrosion), water trapped in lamp housings, oil leaks........
You get the idea.
If the resulting list of things that are OK, greatly outnumbers that which needs attention, you could be ok. But if your results list includes some big ticket* maintenance items, it could change the decision making process.

P

*as an example: Brakes by themselves isn't bad, but if the rotors have been trashed; then that could raise the anti.

 

That is an avenue of opportunity, but I would only suggest it as a second choice.
Why?
What guarantee would you have that the salvage yard transmission is any better that the one you already have?

I would consider two (2) routes.

1) Honda OEM Remanufactured unit* installed by your local independent shop.
2) Transmission replaced by your local independent shop where you allow THEM to supply the transmission.
Why?
In both cases, everyone else is on the hook if something goes wrong - not you.
If Option One (1) has problems, Honda would replace the tranny if it had problems, and the shop would make good if the inspallation were to go bad.
If Option Two (2) has problems; the shop would be on the hook to make it good, regardless how many tranmissions they had to install. After all, they supplied everything.

Don't get sucked into the "You get us the transmission, and we'll install it for you". That puts everything in your lap if anything goes wrong with the Transmission. After all, you supplied it.

P

 

You have given me some reliable choices and information. I believe I do know a very reputable independent shop. I appreciate your time and expertise. You will probably hear back from me after a complete inspection. If the shop won't do it free (esp. if I decline putting more $ into the car to fix it), what kind of charge should I expect for the complete inspection?

 

I wouldn't think much over 1.0hr at the prevailing shop labor rate, particularly if you're a consistent customer..
I look at it as cheap money. If nothing else, it will give you a clear(er) idea of what you're up against.
And who knows, I often credit the diagnostic fee towards the repair if they elect to do the work....... they might too.

P

 

Such valuable advice and information!!! Thanks so much!!! I'll let you know the MyDaughtersCar's destiny!

 

One thing I'd like to add. Something that comes up quite frequently. Is the car paid off? I would assume so. If it is, what would you say is a reasonable car payment per month? $300? If you are on the fence about repairing the car due to the cost, think of having a car payment for 6-7 months and then the car is free again. It's not too bad, considering the cost of insuring a 99 vs. a 5-6 year old car, and tags.

I second the notion of having a thorough inspection to make sure there's no other hidden issues waiting to manifest after the transmission repair.

Good luck!

 

Yes, it is paid off. You have a valid point, but doesn't it always come down to determining if we're throwing good money after bad in cases such as these? That's why I'm clinging to the "complete vehicle inspection" results to make the decision. Thanks!

 

I suggest calling Honda Of America corporate, they may work with you on the price of a replacement or even a full replacement for free. Do not take it to a dealer first, every dealer is different.

 

The car has around 165,000 miles, which is over any extended warranty which was about 14 year/150,000 miles. With this economy, Honda of America is not likely to do anything. I've been hearing Honda of America frequently denying many things lately that is past any warranty period. But, you can always try...

 

I had a 2000 Honda accord SE.... around 130k my tranny started slipping.. I called Honda of America and they qualified me for a replacement without any warranty... there is a recall on the tranny but it mostly depends on the rep you get when you call Honda.... on multiple occasions i was told that they would "NOT" cover the cost of repair for my tranny.. but after calling for several weeks they approved me for the full replacement!!!

 

P0758 If you D4 light blinks and your MIL is on it is the shift solenoid valve B
P1361 This is found in the CKP sensor located on the oil pump housing and is somewhat accesible. There is more wire checking for continuity and power. I have changed these out a few times as well and is not an uncommon event also. Not sure on price but takes about 15 minutes to replace as well with a 10 mm socket or wrench. Worst case here is faulty ecu/ecm.
P1366 Same as above. You either have bad wiring/something wrong with wiring or a faulty CKP sensor. Easily replaced and if you find a motor tranny in a pick and pull you can get these parts somewhat easily.
P1457 very possible that all you need is a new fuel filler cap. Worst case you need to check vaccum and connector at the evap charcoal canister.
P0141 Very common of hondas with higher mileage. O2 sensor. Could be caused by the catalytic converter getting clogged also. Replacing the sensor would be wise to avoid an over rich condition and causing the cat to work harder and go bad earlier.

Honda did have problems with the 99-02 V6 tranny's and had a recall to come in and check the 2nd gear. Most which had an tranny oil cooler installed. Very common my 03 odyssey had it done and I did this inspection numerous times when I worked for honda in 05.
I have replaced a solenoid on my own car before albeit a 4 banger accord. And fixed the problem with a solenoid from a spare tranny that was bad. You could probably find one in a pick and pull easily and cheaply and takes about 10 minutes to replace with a basic 10 mm socket or wrench. there is 2 pages of diagnostic in the v6 supplement book of the service manual but 9 times out of 10 it will be a faulty solenoid. If you can find one cheaply just replace it.
Worst case it involves alot of checking wiring and could possibly be faulty wiring. Look for wire sheaths to have holes or chewing involved as mice and rats like to get in there and they love chewing on wiring so if you live around a mice problem that may be something to look at. I have seen it a few times.

I know this is kinda jumbled in there but I happen to be at my parents house on the way out of town and I gave him my 98-01 service manual and v6 supplement books so I had them sitting in front of me.

I also have some service manuals for sale if you check my sig and follow the link if you are interested in knowing more about your honda.

Good luck to you and hope you get everything fixed. Hondas are good vehicles even when bought by shady characters. They just need some TLC from time to time.

 

If I were you I would take it to Jamco.

 

Would bad shift solenoids cause the tranny in my 99 Ody to delay coming out of OD and slam into 1st when exiting a road and moving into a parking lot at low speed? it hauls *** going down the road, but seems to slip between 1st and 2nd, as well as between 2nd and 3rd. Otherwise, it runs like a top. Has 97k miles

 

Thank you, to all of you who took the time to write... I didn't realize you'd written, and it's not too late. We're procrastinating!

But I will tell her to call, call, call Honda Corp. and see what happens!