I've got a 96 Integra GS-R that I've taken an 'upgrade when it breaks' attitude towards modifying. So far I've got a Apexi WS2 exhaust, AEM CAI, Exedy clutch, ultralight Fidanza flywheel and mildly upgraded brake pads. My car has 140k miles and is due for a timing belt replacement, so I thought I'd get some new camshafts to put in while I've got the engine open.

I'm not into anything too radical beause it's unlikely I'll get the car dyno tuned any time soon, and I'm not interested in raising the redline or replacing the valve springs, so I've been considering getting ITR/CTR cams. On Ebay I can get new ITR cams intake or exhaust for a little less than $300 each, new. My wife won't want me spending too much so I would probably just get an intake cam, but I saw this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-H...Q5fAccessories

I can get the imitation ITR cams intake and exhaust both from DHPS for $400 total. This seems like quite a steal and, as they say, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. I just wanted to know if any of you have an opinion of this company and know whether I can trust the cams. It looks like the ebay store is new, and they don't have many sales yet, but I've poked around and it seems like DHPS is related to Endyn? My engine seems to be in very good shape (compression test results and fuel economy are exemplary) and I don't want to ruin anything by putting in a bad part.

Just wondering if any of the experts had any input?

thanks,
Dan

 

If you are looking for a cheap cam then blox A's are your best bet. I've run them for about 4 yrs. I believe Project_dc2 (on here) is selling them for ~$370. I don't know about DHPS, so I can not recommend them.

Also, 140K is a bit high to start modding a engine. Further, without a tune your car won't run nearly as well as it could.

 

Regarding the Blox A cams, how is the performance of the primaries? It's easy to get specs on the secondaries but that's not where I spend most of my time getting around town and cruising on the interstate. I know the spec A cams aren't very agressive. Are they still good around town? Thanks for the heads up, BTW, I'll definitely check those out.

I know how important a proper tuning is, but I've got other financial priorities and I just can't drop $1000 or more on a Hondata and a good dyno tune, at least for the time being. I'd rather take my wife on a vacation, for example. So I have to sort of nip away at the mods (like I've been doing the past 9 years that I've owned the car). That said, if cams + the listed mods will be a waste of money without tuning, then I won't get them.

Is there a reason it's dangerous to swap in mild cams on an old engine? I've heard that spec'd up cams don't get along well with leaky motors, but my max compression variation is < 1%, my spark plugs looked great after almost 65k, and I'm getting 35+ mpg so I think the engine is in good shape.

Thanks for help,
Dan

 

the blox type-a cams have the same/similar primary's as stock. so around town/cruising you wont feel much of a difference at all. only when you get into vtec you will notice a difference. the vtec cam specs are slightly more aggressive than the ITR specs.

you could probably get away without upgrading the valve train with those cams as long as you stay under the factory redline.

 

I really could not tell you because I have never owned a stock engine as a reference. However, my car made 199 whp, 135 ft-lb with those cams. Plus, I'm able to go into vtec at 4700 rpm. I suspect the primaries are like type-r cams but I don't know for sure.

I think those cams plus a good tune would make a big difference in your driving experience. You could get a chipped ecu and tune with crome for less than $300.

While compression and leakdown are important, I'm considering the number of cycles seen by the valvetrain and associated components. Further, it is not the rpm limit that is the problem with OE springs and aftermarket cams, it is the lift. MOTU put a nice chart of spring pressure versus lift for the b16a/gsr spring. They have very little control at lifts above what they would see with a OE gsr cams. While I ran with OE springs on Blox A's for years, I would not recommend doing that. You can get supertech springs and run 2002 rsx type-s retainers for less than $250 for the springs and retainers shipped.

I understand about price and I hope I offered some insight into cheaper competent alternatives.

 

Thanks for your help. After a few years of running the Blox A's on GSR springs, did you notice any extra valvetrain wear or problems with the springs? I've been reading and it seems that most mild cams leave only ~0.5 mm before GSR springs bind.

 

Try here for real cams just over $500.
http://www.city-speed.com/webstore/e...TypeRhead.html

 

do yourself a favor and if you cant/wont upgrade the valve spring dont put cams in it.

you CAN do it for a while, but it will most likely end up in catastrophic engine failure when you drop a valve.

do it right or dont do it at all

 

^^^Jason, as straight forward (blunt) as ever.

 

I can get Type R IN valvesprings new for < $100 on Ebay. Is it safe to assume that they would be able to handle a stage 1 cam? Sorry, I'm sure this question has been asked a ton of times on the forum. There's even a chance I knew the answer to it, once, when I was thinking about cars more.

Thanks for the help, and please excuse the noob questions.

 

Man, stay off of ebay. Itr cams go for $250-$300 for both. There is always someone selling the type r valvetrain for cheap. Upgrade that valvetrain according to the camshafts you are going to get.

 

the stg1's are essentailly type r's. adding those would def. help you out but try to stay at or below factory redline for piece of mind. Alls you really need are valve springs anyway so why not spend 150 for a set of blox springs an entire set. Im sure one of the site sponsors could work out a little package deal for you with the type a's and the springs.

 

I would talk to ENDYN about these DHPS cams as they are being made for the new head castings that ENDYN has recently come out with.

 

get some omni springs, they are like 180 bux and will be good for just about whatever cam you want.

the whole point of bigger cams is to make more power and that typically requires a higher rev-limit...

 

For example, a level 1 camshaft from Bisimoto does not need new valve springs. They are designed to optimize engine performance with the stock valve train. This helps reduces overall cost to the consumer.

 

right... and when he overrevs the engine its going to drop valves, which he would probably get away with if he had stock cams.

valve springs are cheap compared to what could be damaged. i have seen it 100's of times.. throw in some itr/stage 1 cams with stock valve train, a month later im rebuilding a cylinder head. its not worth it.

 

Please stop with the advertising in threads. Also, how do you account for the 140K miles those springs have seen in your optomization?

 

OK, you guys convinced me of the importance of getting springs. I'll make sure I grab a set before putting cams in. I have two somewhat off topic questions, though, related to CROME tuning:

1) Is it still necessary to solder on chips to do the tuning correctly? That is something way outside of my skill set.

2) Is there a way of using dataloggers to simulate dyno runs for tuning purposes, either by street pulls through a gear, or by freerevving against the flywheel?

 

^^^
1) Yes, you will need some soldering to chip your ecu.

2) Back in the day, a lot of very good tuners would street tune. Now days with a the load control dyno, street tuning is not really necessary and dangerous. Try to find a load control dyno in your area.

 

They make something called a quick-release ZIF socket. You still need to have the ECU components (a couple resistors and capacitors, and a few extra peripheals) soldered onto the ECU board to allow for running "chips".

Or

You can run an emulator (ie: Ostrich 2) and a datalogger (ie: HuLOG xtreme) or run a new Moates Demon, which combines both the emulator and datalogger into one unit with one USB cable. These components are all compatable with CROME. This will allow you to make real-time adjustments to the ECU without burning chips. Get a wideband oxygen sensor and do street tuning to nail the fuel maps and finish on a dyno for ignition.

Or

Find someone who has above mentioned setup (emulator + datalogger) and have them street tune for you, then burn a chip with the completed map.

If you are interested in the DIY approach, start reading at pgmfi.org

 

I forgot I would have to get an OBD1 ECU, so I might as well get one already socketed. It's funny because I planned all this out years ago, but I can't remember anything. Thanks for answering the noob questions.

 

I got my Blox A cams and valvesprings in the mail today. Thanks to Phil from spoolinperformance.com for giving me a great deal on them and keeping me out of trouble with the wife. I'm excited to put them in, but I probably won't have the car down and running again because I'm waiting for a water pump to arrive, for the weather to clear, and to decide on what color I'm going to paint my valve cover...

I'm taking the valve cover off tomorrow hopefully, and I've got my fingers crossed that the valves and rockers are in good shape.

 

lol i thought that was funny

good luck with the build

 

take your time when installing the valve springs. place small rags or paper towels around the oil drain holes around the valve spring area so when the valve retainer keepers fall out they dont drop into the oil pan.

 

I hope I didn't say anything embarrassing

I'm having fun messing stuff up, but the crank pulley bolt is owning me (I'm replacing the timing belt too). A pulley removal tool is ETA Friday and I'm not worried about the pulley bolt falling off before then. As the sun was going down tonight I got as far as the cam holders but the little jerks would't come out! I was expecting them to pop right off but I can't see any bolts holding them down so I figured I'd worry about it tomorrow.

edit: nonVTEC thanks for the tip. I'll be extra careful with those keepers.