I race in Canada's premier Touring series (www.touringcar.ca) and my current 2000 Civic Si is only eligible for one more season so I'm looking at building a new Race car!

I'm leaning towards an RSX or 06+ Civic Si. They both have the same powertrain which I have to keep stock internally and am only allowed to change the Final drive in the trany.

As of next season, we are not allowed any Spoilers except the OE offering.

What's difference are there with these 2 cars????

Thanks

 

With out question the +06 civic SI.

I LOVE the rsx, its styling and the way it looks on track, but from people who have raced them in WC TC, and Grand Am ST they are the scariest thing that those guys have driven. Yes they are fast but, the suspension on both ends has tons of issues.

The GA ST guys run impossibly stiff springs so that the suspension doesn't move, and the guys in WC TC completely redesigned the suspension and still ran fairly stiff springs.


The 06 civic SI doesn't have the suspension issues that the RSX does. And it can work good fairly easily.

 

what slammed 93 said... get the Civic Si...its suspension is vastly superior to that of the RSX esp. if these are your only choices on your shortlist.

 

Apart from The motor in the 06+ Civic's, are there any differences in a regular chassis vs the SI...I have to run Si brakes, are they also the same on a base model?

Cheers

 

We have to run a car that's less then 10 years old and touring as 2 tires option in the R888, 205-15s -r 205-17s plus the motor can't be more then a 2.0L

Any other sugestions for a race Car???

 

The Si is better suspension wise and it has an LSD and that helps put the power down coming out of curves.

I have tried both on track and the Si feels superior in every aspect.

 

I have converted a 2006 EX to a 2006 SI.

I wouldn't do it again, as it required a lot of parts.

Just on the front end alone you need to replace the following

Engine (duh)
trans (duh)
subframe
steering rack- this also requires a new computer for the PS rack, and it has to be "set" by a dealer. And IIRC you need to change the instrument cluster out to the SI unit.
radiator
LCA
Spindle
Fuel lines
The upper passenger side "torque mount" has a completely different chassis mounting point. We fabricated our own, if you want it to be factory you have to change out the whole sheet metal upper strut mount.


That is off the top of my head, and there was more stuff that had to be changed also, like fuel pump rear suspension parts and rear brakes/hubs.

It isn't an easy swap.

 

That sounds like an enormous pain in the ***. Not that it was there to begin with, but count that swap as crossed off my list of things I'd like to do in the future

 

lol.....just a fyi....any macphearson strut cars has to be set up so there is no body lean in turns. Body lean = major changes is sispension angles. This goes for mini coopers, 911's golf/rabbits and m3's. What most people do is stop this lean with huge sways but sways reduce grip. Why would you want to reduce grip on a race car? That and sways change rate as they are are loaded. Macstrut cars need to be setup with as little sway as possible but most racers think if the factory set a car up with sways, you need bigger ones to race.....wrong.

As for what car to set up.....depends on your clubs rules...you always pick a car buy the rules.

 

You can't make blanket statements like that. Because there is no absolutes in how to make a car handle.

RTR ran very very very stiff sway bars front and rear on the RSX. As did the Mechanic Shop North/King motorsports RSX.

Also sway bars have 1 rate, they don't "change rate". They apply the same force to the wheel when cornering through out there operating range.

 

I've already found and 06 Civic Si with a Cage and 5.062FD....It has little to no milleage and is going to be used in the Targa Of Newfoundland.

Ok, So now let's make this car handle....The Car has to be 2550lbs with me in it (175lbs)

????

 

Want to pissoff every racer you know? Read this and set up your car with it....

http://forums.clubep3.net/showthread.php?t=657092

Steve Hoeschler barless suspension setup ........as far as I know, steve started this trend and it really does work....or you could just follow everyone else, kinda hard to win a race like that though...

 

and they sucked.......and if you are going to tell me that any twist beam has a constan rate, I just have to lol....

 

well **** since you have it all figured out why aren't you working for several teams setting up suspension and chassis??

but you obviously have it all figured out so i'll keep stop typing.

You should read this though, from some one who has written books and does it for a living http://buddyfey.blogspot.com/

 

Ok since you have it all figured out......why would anyone put anything on a race car that reduces grip? Thats what sway/anti roll bars do. They reduce grip from the inside wheel and shift it to the out side wheel. Yea, great plan, lets make 4 rubber contact patchs into 2. Swaybars are for street cars, car makers use them so they can use low rate springs so your soccer mom does not loose her teeth going to the store . A race car should use springs to hold up the car in order to get maximum grip from all 4 tires. Hey, keep thinking that way though, one of these new school swaybarless car will just drive around you at sone point. Then you might get it......

 

NOT TOO SURE ABOUT THE 06 SI BUT THE RSX SUX ! !!!!!!!

 

and you might want to follow his advice btw.....

 

ONCE AGAIN RSX SUX

 

i really think the RSX sucks blue donkey *****

 

What were the changes made to the new SI's that made a significant difference?

 

The SI.

 

I am following his advice.

I have an open mind and i don't think any one should just throw on what you, or some other random guy on the internet says will be the best. Remember you are the one that came into this post spouting off about "absolutes" with how sway bars suck, Steve Hoeschler is the setup master, blow everyone out of the water with this setup.


Not me, i stated that some very fast cars, BTW do you know who RTR is? or who the Mechanic shop North/King motorsports is?, use sway bars.

I didn't say he would be an idiot if he didn't use them, nor did i hint towards that directions.

Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote, you are the one with the closed mind, and absolutes.

FYI a sway bar is a spring, Coil spring like what goes on a shock is simply coiled and a sway bar is straight.

On my own race car i am constantly working and changing, one thing at a time, to make it handle better.

 

up front

1.) the steering arm/tie rod was taken off of the strut and moved on to the knuckle. (this was the fronts biggest handy cap)

in the rear

It is a complete re design. It is not coil over shock, and isn't even a trailing arm setup.

 

Somebody say Sway Barz?

Well, it's always a treat to get the opportunity to talk about Them again.

Yes, Sway Bars are Evil. Yes, Sway Bars just reduce grip and evilly transfer innocent weight from the inside wheels to the outside wheels - which is exactly what we don't want.

In Fact, the effects get worse the bigger the bars, as Mustclimb alluded to. At the extreme you have absolutely zero grip and the car tips over the instant the steering wheel is turned.

When I look at cars in the paddock I make a simple calculation as to the engineering competence of the operation by taking the inverse of the size of their bars. Yes, almost all prove to be exceedingly stupid.

These are the Laws of Physics you understand, there can be no argument.

Scott, who asks "Is this board Great or What?"...

** I would add that I recently went thru a phase where I talked myself out of sway bars very logically, but found that to get the roll stiffness necessary I had two wheel pitch rates that were so high as to make the car porpoise on rollers, bounce on the tires, and be extremely touchy in a rough brake zone - almost spun once while going in a straight line when all of the sudden I only had one front wheel pushing back Very Hard. My new theory is that for many applications it is a good idea to decouple pitch and roll stiffness somewhat.

 

OMFG, teh Scott is running barz again?!?!? My head just asploded...