So yeah I am new, so hi. Moving right along.

Had to do a timing belt. Finally got the crank pulley off, replace the belt, made sure the sprocket mark was lined up with the oil pump mark and the cam pulley was in "up" position, etc.

Spun it by hand about 30 times, and everything seemed kosher with the rotor aiming at the 1 plug spot when the crank showed TDC on 1.

After we get everything back together, the starter kicks and kicks, but the car refuses to run.

Plugs are 9 mo old.
Wires are 9 mo old
Cap is really old
Rotor is too
The wires are on the right dist ports.
There is gas.

It ran on Saturday morning. I am at my wit's end. OF course the rotor screw is seized and we have no spare and it is 11pm. I can't check the rest of the dist, but if that is the likely problem we can tear it down. If anyone has any input or perhaps suggestions on where to start trouble shooting I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

 

check for spark... hold a screwdriver in the end of a plug wire, hold the screwdriver near a ground, see if there is any spark... If not, you probably have a bad coil.

 

^Just tried that with a variety of screwdrivers and grounding points - nothing. We had spark yesterday, but today, no.

I guess it's cap rotor and testing of the coil time.

Am I missing something or is there no way to test voltage directly before the distributor? Next to this distributor are just two connectors and the both look like sensor connectors.

 

you can check hor 12v at coil. just have key on, pobe pos side if you have voltage your good. alot of times a bad coil will still read within spec, but if you ever tried to start the car with any plug wires off and the dizzy stil plugged in you most liked f'ed the coil.
I have never seen a cap and rotor cause a no-start on a honda.

 

New cap
new rotor
ignition control unit tested fail 6 times at autozone, was replaced with one that tested pass 3x.
coil tested good, stays

car still will not run.

The only other thing that has been suggested is Crank fluctuation sensor cfk. Could that possibly be it? Would a faulty CFK keep it from running? We can always do the bypass if that is the deal, which would be so much better than tearing back down to the crank sprocket.

We are not getting a CEL, but that is probably because it will not run at all. If one of these sensors was KIA would we get a CEL even if the car hasn't run since Saturday?

 

Do you now have spark at the plugs? If so, is spark bright white or weak orange?

Does the fuel pump prime for 2 seconds with the key in ON(II)?

Is the CEL ON?

After you spun (counterclockwise only) the crank 30 times, did you check whether the cam and crank were still synchronized at TDC1?

 

I just tried the screwdriver in the 1 plug boot trick and did not see any spark when I tried arcing to a metal bolt on the rad support.

No CEL. At key on, if we leave it there, the pump primes and we get a batt light and an oil light. The starter cranks away though.

On the timing - we put 4 equal length pieces of cardboard, one down each plug hole, and turned it. When the crank showed TDC, the cardboard in the 1 plug hole was up, and the rotor was aimed at the 1 plug dist spot. We spun it like that for 5 minutes probably, and everything looked good. The manual says 'always rotate the engine counterclockwise; clockwise rotation may cause incorrect adjustment of the timing.'

Are you telling me this is jacked up again?

 

Your spark checking method runs some risk of blowing the coil. You might want to try this method.

You tested and verified that the crank was at TDC1. When the crank is at TDC1, you also need to check that the cam is likewise positioned at TDC1 to verify that the mechanical timing is correct. Nonetheless, you should have spark even if the mechanical timing is off.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the next step is to pull off the distributor cap and rotor, turn the key to ON(II), and check for battery voltage on the BLK/YEL wire attached to the coil and ICM.

 

counterclockwise is correct

ron just made a typo there

 

Yep, silly typo. Now corrected. Thanks.

 

^ No problem, I was just going to succumb to crippling depression if it was clockwise.

My multimeter may be dead. Have to get a new one. I checked spark the right way, still nothing.

I'll pull the dist cap and check the blk/yellow wire this afternoon.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

You should be able to pick up a good basic digital multimeter for $15-$20. There are additional distributor tests for no spark, but the BLK/YEL wire is the place to start.

 

OK so we have spark, and it is white.

Multimetered the yellow/black wire and I have ~12.2 volts.


Tried to fire and had a modicum of combustion, but it wouldn't stay lit, it just kind of grumbled for a second or two and died.

No CELs.

My guess now is the timing is a wee bit off, unless someone else has an idea.

 

Mechanical timing was off by maybe a quarter of an inch on the crank. We fixed that, put everything back together and checked the ignition again.

Primary and secondary resistance were within spec on the coil.

We let her rip and it started for about 1 second, we had combustion, and then it died. It's so close, and yet so far. Still no CEL. We tried jumping it, as we have been running the starter every once in a while for 3 days...no luck there either.

I am out of ideas.

 

Will the engine fire longer by adding some starter fluid? Do you have battery voltage at the fuel injector connectors?

See this thread for how to set the mechanical timing and the proper firing order on the distributor cap.

If all is fine, compression test the cylinders.

 

Hmmm. No idea about those two things. What supplies the injectors with voltage?

Mechanical timing is now dead on. Quite the chore that was, only taking the top timing belt cover off and loosening the tensioner. Getting the belt back over the cam pulley without goosing the crank was ridiculous.

 

The injectors get battery voltage on the Yel/Blk wire through the main relay. Test for voltage to body ground with the key in ON(II).

Does the CEL work? --On for 2 seconds and then off when key is turned to ON(II)?

 

On the CEL - yes it comes on at startup and then extinguishes.

 

did you plug the sensor at the crank back up?

 

thats the crankshaft fluctuation sensor, it WILL NOT prevent a car from running. it wont run well under load without it but idle and cruise will be fine.

just a thought here but have you checked compression??

 

The fluctuation sensor is installed. It would be dangling obviously out by the crank pulley otherwise, as we never disconnected it, only dismounted it and moved it out of the way to get the new belt on.

And no, I haven't checked compression. What sort of problem would loss of compression from acceptable compression on Saturday when it ran for 40 miles indicate?

When we figure this out I am certain it is going to be something so obvious and stupid I will want to resign from civilization.

 

well you said yourself the timing was off. i was just suggesting the possibility of bent valves because of the timing being off although i've seen single cams off by 3 teeth without interference.

have you tried starting it with starting fluid or something to rule out fuel volume being the problem??

 

I completely agree.

OP:
1) Click here for details on testing cylinder compression.

2) It's also now important to know whether fuel fails to make it into the cylinder. If the engine fires with starter fluid, then fuel delivery to the cylinder may be the problem. This would prompt you to check for battery voltage at the fuel injector clips and to do other tests.

 

just dont forget voltage to the injector is constant with the ground closing the circuit.

really you need a noid light to properly test injector operation.

 

It started.

I drove back to the office after lunch in my wife's car and saw the Honda sitting in my spot. Of course I shouted some excited expletives.

Apparently, at the end of last night it was 'fixed', but we must have fouled the plugs.

It sat overnight, then it was going to get towed to another location. Just on a lark my buddy tried to start it again once it got moved, and after a couple seconds of cranking, it ran. He drove it 30 miles to here, no problem...except it needs more coolant.

Thanks for the help guys. This one is done.