it seems like I just keep running into the unexpected with this build.... I just busted a ring with my shitty piston ring compressor .... what kind can I get thats easy to use I bought a cheap one from harbour freight then NAPA and both were junk.... what do you guys use?

 

The El-Cheepos from those places work just fine. I assume you are talking about the band compressor style? What I typically do is set the pistons top down on a flat surface then ratchet the ring compressor (making sure it is on the flat surface as well) until tight against the piston. I have never run into a problem doing it this way. Way back when I used to do it just up in the air and not having everything parallel and I learned the hard way by cracking/breaking rings. If you have domed pistons then I usually support the piston with two blocks of wood or something of the sort.

 

[QUOTE=N3va3vaSatisfi3d;39305438]The El-Cheepos from those places work just fine. I assume you are talking about the band compressor style? What I typically do is set the pistons top down on a flat surface then ratchet the ring compressor (making sure it is on the flat surface as well) until tight against the piston. I have never run into a problem doing it this way. Way back when I used to do it just up in the air and not having everything parallel and I learned the hard way by cracking/breaking rings. If you have domed pistons then I usually support the piston with two blocks of wood or

I did this and it worked , also used more oil for lubrication. still have to wait till tuesday for piston number 4. is it supposed to be tight as ****? cuz my piston wont move up and down without me pushing pretty hard

 

Are you talking about in the cylinder or in the ring compressor? If in the ring compressor, no not really. Did you make sure that the compressor band was all in line on the top and bottom and not rolled up in a upward spiral. Also are these aftermarket pistons? Did you gap the rings? If not then it could cause binding.

 

no I got the piston in the block but its super tight......

 

Ok, well again, did you get different pistons or what? Also I ASSUME you did not GAP the rings.

 

Yeah I have 76mm vitaras. and no I didnt gap them. I couldnt afford the 75 dollar file cuz I just paid 200 for all my machine work. I was told most of them are within spec...

 

Rings are practically never in spec. You don't have to purchase a ring filer. You can use a $2 file and it will work fine. Get one with a fine and coarse side. ALWAYS file from the outside to the inside of the ring. You need to gap the rings, unless the machine work was done incorrectly and the piston is tight up against the cylinder wall, it is your rings. They sound like they are binding because of not being gapped. You should always check your gap regardless, it is part of a motor, and it will probably take you 2 hours or so to fit them all your first time. It sucks but it is a vital part of the build. Especially if you are building for boost then you need to gap them even wider.

 

Just make sure you convert your bore size from Millimeters to Inches otherwise you will come out with crazy numbers.


------------------------------------Top Ring---------------Second Ring--------------Oil Ring---------

Street/High Performance:---Bore X .0045/.005"---Bore X .005/.006"------Min .015"

Drag/Circle Track Racing:----Bore X .006"------------Bore X .0065/.007"----Min .015"

Nitrous/Turbo/SuperChrgd:-Bore X .0065/.007"----Bore X .007/.008"--------Min .015"

 

see I dont have a feeler guage or anything and I dont know how to file em right .... I just dont get it....it is the gap at the end or the whole things gap?

 

I don't understand your question but you put the ring inside the cylinder. Since rings are not a full circle and have a "gap" in them, this is where you measure the "ring end gap". You must do this while they are compressed in the cylinder. Feeler gauge sets are about $5 - $10. I am sorry but if you are not willing to do it right I would not be building your own motor. You will end up paying somebody after it self destructs to rebuild it (if it is even rebuildable) after it is all said and done anyways.

It sounds like your rings are binding in the cylinder, and most likely that ring broke due to not being gapped and when you compressed it on the piston it bound up and shattered the ring.

 

I still dont get what I am am measuring.... and how to use the feeler guage to do it , is there a how to anywhere or any advice you have?

 

so if my bore (76mm) is 2.9912 inches its 2.9912 x .007 (boost application) then my gap should be .020? correct? I am starting to understand I think....

 

also where can I get a file? like is there one thats better than another ? I saw one at sears for 75 bucks...... you said there was a 2 $ one....

 

any hardware or automotive store should have them, just ask for cheap one, gapping is really easy, you put the ring one by one is cylinder, push it down with piston to make sure they are square, then take the piston out and stick the feeler gauge in the gap, i suppose to be tight with correct reading, if its too tight gently file one end of, put it back in and recheck it...i would take N3va3vaSatisfi3d suggestion if you want this motor to last

 

It is easy to gap rings. It will take you a while and a lot of putting the ring in and out of the cylinder to get it all correct.

Step #1.) Take a ring (make sure you use correct numbers for which ever ring you pick to start with... i.e. top ring, second ring, oil retention rings) and put it in the cylinder. You don't have to have it very far down.

2.) Take one of your pistons and "square up" the ring in the bore, by pushing it down about an inch or so.

3.) Take a feeler gauge and measure the gap. There should be a slight drag on the feeler if you have the correct on in the gap.

4.) If gap is still to small to specified gap then file one end of the ring from the outside towards the inside.

5.) Recheck by starting at STEP #1 and going on through to STEP #5 until your correct gap is gotten.

Repeat this for all rings. You do not need to do this for the oil ring - it looks like a squiggly snake ~~~~~~ this one does not get gapped, but the rings holding it in place DO.

If you take a ring and put it in the cylinder you will see what we are talking about.

 

is my math correct for ring one did I do that part right?

you make me feel like such a newb. I am learning tho....

 

For 76mm your top ring should be .019-.021" and your second ring should be .021-.024" with your oil control tension rings being a min of .015"

I would start and work towards the smaller gaps first because most "newbs" overshoot when filing anyways. Also it depends on how much boost you intend to run if more than around 10-12 lbs then shoot towards the wider end of the spectrum.

Also you should take the time to read all of the posts in your thread, the file you use does not have to be for piston rings any file for metal use that has at least a fine side to it will work.

A repair manual is your friend and can be had for under $20 a Haynes or Chilton will not have ring end gaps in them typically though or how to do it, most I have seen just tells you it needs to be checked. There are many important time consuming things to check when building or rebuilding a motor. The bottom end is the easy part, the head, especially if you do your own work (I.e. Port and Polish), Can take 20-30 hours if you don't do it all the time.

What are your total plans for this motor? What boost levels, what HP, what RPMs, ect, ect... This will all factor in to what will need to be done if you want this motor to last for any amount of time. You seem to have gotten off to a bad start of the worst kind: Lack of information/experience. Let us help you help yourself, information is always helpful especially when we are not there to see what is going on at your end of things in full.

(sorry sent from my cell phone so some stuff may not sound like I have an education)

 

my horsepower goals are around 300-350 , havent decided on my turbo yet me and another member are figuring out what would get me to 350 with the least amount of boost and a good spool. we have narrowed it down to 2 garrett turbos. I dont plan on revving any higher than 7.5-8k. I do have alot of knowledge I just dont know everything . I live in MO and theres not alot of honda people here just sitting around to teach me stuff. I dont have much experience either , thats why I am doing this. to learn. my head I bought was already rebuilt , I will have pictures in my thread soon , It has already been checked by my machinist to make sure the valves are adjusted correctly and the head is flat , my deck has been done as well. I used king bearings and found only 2 of them to be on the looser end of specs but not out of service range. from what I am told on the looser end is good for boost. again I don't know. my head is stock , rebuilt from OEM parts so revving high wont really be possible but I am not all motor so I don't mind , I have seen many a setup's with high boost on stock head make 300whp. any tips are helpful I appreciate it , In the future I may PM you if that's okay. I want as much HELPFUL advice as I can get since I am here to learn after all. the only thing not stock on my head is an adjustable cam gear. I beleive I will be runng the GT3251 , me and theShodan have been talking about this turbo , since the one I have (t25) will not give me the #'s I want. so any suggestions you have I am all for.