Is anyone running them? If so which one are you using?

 

I hear Tony has a new knock detection setup on his car.. I just use my ears, which is why my car is slow.

 

http://www.motec.com.au/latestnews/newsknockmodules/

 

MSD had a knock detection kit but you always want to be able to log any knock if possible.

 

So is there a solution for Hondata?

 

yes its called ears lol lik stated above..

 

I just don't get it, if knock is so important why aren't there other solutions out there to help honda's with it?

 

there is the JS Safeguard, which I don't see many honda guys using.. I just watch knock voltage levels with my ems, and could use knock control if i wanted.

 

Good knock control that actually works is very difficult to do, that's why you don't see it.

OEMs spend tons of time on knock control and it only applies to THAT engine in THAT chassis. Anything that's changed can affect the resonant frequency of the engine and make the knock control not work correctly.

I have the Motec SKM on my car and it is the only system on the market that truly has all the control you need for correct operation.

 

Can the Motec SKM work with Crome?

 

thats very interesting, could you explain a little more about how it applies to a specific engine in a specific chassis?

so would a basic swapped car throw off the knock sensor readings to the ecu??? example: stock gsr in a eg chassis.

 

Not likely, as they're almost identical situations. The OBD1 knock stuff leaves a lot to be desired though so it doesn't really matter much anyways.

The SKM does a few things to assure it works properly.

First, you record the engine noise and detonation and analyze the recording in the software. From there you will pick out the frequency that knock is most distinguishable and set the SKM to look at that frequency. The frequency is what varies from setup to setup.

Then you adjust the individual cylinder knock signal gain levels until you have a nice even reading across all cylinders. It only uses 1 sensor, but knows which cylinder just fired so it can tell which cylinder knocked. Since the sensor is usually biased to 1 or 2 cylinders, the gain adjustment makes up for that.

Then you set the 'knock window' that the SKM will look for knock in. Knock is almost always going to happen between 10deg ATDC and 40-50deg ATDC. By only looking for knock in that window, you filter out more possibility for false knock.

So now it's reading knock correctly, now you decide what to do with it. You decide how much it retards ignition timing based on the percentage of knock over the knock limit (knock limit is adjustable in a 3d table that you determine the axes). You decide at what rate it brings timing back to normal. You decide the max retard amount. You decide the long term trim rate and max. And all the control is per cylinder, it only retards from the cylinder that knocked.

It takes a good 2-4 hours to setup if everything goes smooth and you're very fluent with it all. Your first setup will probably take a good 8 hours or so to setup.

But in the end, you've got a hell of a protection system.

 

Hey everyone thank you for chiming in, I wish I had the money to run motec, but I sm just making due with my s300. Everyone thanks for you imput so far, if you know something that hasn't been stated please let us know.

 

doesn´t the knock frequency change with rpm? I can see there is a ton of work and destroyed engines to have a knock detekting system worked out to do what it i suposed to do.. If someone hangs a 40 pounds header and turbo on the engine the knock frequenzy must change alot.. I guess it has alot incomen with resonens calculation etc I did in school.. Soor about the spelling.. I just got a few drinks..

 

The knock frequency doesn't change with rpm, but the actual noise level does. This is why you have an adjustable knock threshold. Some engines are just too loud altogether at high rpm and it's not possible to have effective knock detection.

 

thanks for explaining further, you had me thinking my stock knock sensor may not function correctly since its a swapped car, btw setting up a aftermarket knock detector sound intense.

 

This is great info Tony, thanks! A little above my set up though lol

 

Where did you locate the knock sensor? in the stock location? Where is a good place other than the stock location on a B18C block?

 

so you mean to tell me that I shouldnt be tuning my DSM by this 35 cent korean made knock sensor at 42psi of boost on 93 octane??? psshhhhhh whateva!

hahaha

Although it is funny how quite a few car specific people rely on it to be the holy grail of all tuning sensors. Also quite funny how I would say 90% of Hondas do not use them/delete them/disregard them. Not sure if its just being comfortable with the tuning of THAT specific engine, turbo, injector application. Or maybe its the fact that Hondas are an efficient engine and we have less overall knock?

I grew up in an age where we were still taught by Pops to read a set of plugs, although it will not give you every bit of information that technology gives us today it is still a good useful tool. I would say plug reading along with the info gained from datalogging EGT, knock, EMAP, AFR combined or in an individual cylinder application is extremely beneficial