Some of you may remember I was looking into making adj. B series cam gears about a month ago. I'm doing it.
Here's a few shots of what I'm building (compare mine to the Spoon/TODA units):
http://tjshondas.20m.com/misc/bgears.html

I don't have extra cores yet, so if interested YOU send me a set of Honda B series gears (B16A, B17A, B18A/B/C, B20B/Z, they are all the same).

What I will return to you:
(2) modified Honda B-series cam gears
(2) adjustable aluminum insert made of 7076-T6 (harder than 6061)
(8) M6 x 10 black oxide, button head screws, grade 10.9
(8) M6 Schnorr Spring washer
(2) M8 x 30 flange bolt, zinc plated, grade 10.9 (non-VTEC)
or
(2)M10 x 35 flange bolt, zinc plated, grade 10.9 (VTEC)
(2) M8 x 19 x 4 insert washer

The price is $215/pair, free shipping in the lower 48.

I've also got ZC adj. gears in the works, I'll have the pricing on those Monday (and they will be cheaper, because they require less machine work). Anyone interested in the ZC gears, please e-mail me. I'll need at least 10 people. The more that are interested, the lower the price gets.

SOHC D series are next...

 

hey this is "luis" of hybrids.jp. so the ZC gears are a go? did you find a way to make them work?

 

Yeah, I finally got some time to take a good look at them with the micrometer. I'm going to build them just like the ones I made for my D16A1 - should keep the cost down.

I don't know if 20m.com will allow the picture link, so:

or
http://tjshondas.20m.com/misc/40Tgears.jpg

-TJ

 

looks good keep it up..


[Modified by ED9Hybrid, 8:46 PM 8/22/2002]

 

so how much cheaper will these be? lmk and i'll ask a few ZC owners here in Arizona and see if i can get a buy going! have my gears been machined already? or are they still in stock form? i may actually sell me AEM gears for a set of these!!!

 

Luis, your gears are not machined yet. I'm not gonna commit to these as quickly as I did the B series. I need to have more real buyers first.

I don't know how much cheaper yet. I'll get a quote on Monday. Fortunately, they'll require about 1/2 of the billet length that the B-series units do, so that should help the material cost quite a bit. Unfortunately, the insert size of the ZC gear is slightly larger - it's a tapered inner wall, but once cleaned up it's going to be 3.560". There is no getting around the extra .060", so the next billet size up is 4" (that is in the 7075), and getting to my point, the B-series inserts are just under 3.5" - the ZC units will require a larger billet to begin with.

Also, helping the price, there is less machine work to do with this design and no keyway to broach in.

I'm not sure that I'll even use the 7075 with the ZC gears. There's really no reason for it since I can use the factory hub/keyway. My D16A1 gears pictured above are 6061.

On a side note, since I seem to draw a lot of flack whenever I make a post about my B-series gears (most of it about the price, like it's so different from the big names), here's my response from the EG side...Just so I don't have to repeat myself over and over. It should at least be a good read.

Well, sorry about the core thing, but I personally don't have 20 extra B series gears laying around and the local yards have been fairly dry lately. I have been visiting regularly and I intend to acquire as many as possible. I fully understand the inconvenience of sending the only gears you have (which are in the only car you have).

tonyxcom, the following is by no means directed at you. I've been asked the same basic questions since I started this thing, it's just my opinion of what I found on the market.

The whole reason I built these (aside from not supporting the big name companies who can get them made for less because of the large quanity they order) is to make something that was better, or to combine the best features. Funny how when an individual enthusiast tries to do this, the response is divided - I either get compliments, or I get flames...just look at the same thread over in the Integra section.

I've been told in more than a few BBS's that Toda makes Spoon's gears. They make them out of factory cores as well. I suspect the reason for the $300 price tag is that they buy new gears from Honda at whatever price. I can certainly order a set of new gears to start with, but the price goes up accordingly - there's enough whining at the current price, so we have to play the core game.

My design is exactly the same as the toda/spoon units, or as closely approximated as a couple of different pictures off the net could provide. I have not yet found any retailers that advertise what thier insert is made of. Mine is 7075. 7075 because it's a harder alloy than 6061 and I didn't want the keyway broach to get sloppy with the softer material. So, compared to toda/spoon units, the price is what makes mine better and possibly the material.

Skunk2 makes their gears out of 7075 and I like thier design as well. Mine are the same price. I can put 5* more adjustment in them if anyone wants, but there are very few situations where you need that much adjustment.

As for the rest, STR advertises that they are made of 6061. As I said above, I don't trust 6061 with the keyway. If that gets sloppy, there goes the precision adjustment. I've also seen pictures of 6061 tooth profiles that have been worn away by the timing belt - right through the annodizing. If 6061 was a viable material, why didn't Honda use it?

AEM. This is the best one to critique because they give the most info. Read their schpiel on their site http://www.aempower.com/cam_gears.htm.
Again, 6061. Here's a quote I like "AEM’s new hard-anodizing on the outer edge of the gear (right) is 40% harder than our previous anodizing process. This new anodizing procedure offers superior wear characteristics and features a titanium-look finish." Hmm. Maybe it was them who had the problem with the belt surface being eaten away by the belt. I know that performance is all about a titanium-look finish too. I gotta watch more hi-rev tuners on the speed channel.

Notice they also provide grade 8 fasteners - that's an admitted improvement over what they used to provide, read the schpiel! Mine are grade 10.9. They aren't shiny either. AEM advertises an integral washer flange for greater load distribution - translated that means the bigger flange is responsible for the fasteners ability to stay tight - a good thing especially when there are only 3 of them. I use a dual serrated Schnorr spring washer under my bolts. Check them out here http://www.schnorr.com/washer.html. The illustration should speak for itself.

Thanks for reading,
-TJ


[Modified by -TJ, 8:08 PM 8/22/2002]

 

aem gears tend to slip, never waste money on htem...

 

That's BS! Most every import car I know runs AEM gears, including myself on two cars. They have NEVER slipped on my car or anyone elses that I know.


[Modified by Steve91, 10:36 PM 8/22/2002]

 

slip my ***, tighten them to spec and theres no problem whatsoever, they've never given me a problem. They're the most reputable company that makes em'. Hence the price

Oh and great job TJ, i'll checkout the junkyard here (san jose, ca) when i go this weekend. i know i saw 2 integra engines with just the valve covers off last time. If the 1.8L Gears are the same i'll take whats there! More power to ya'z!


[Modified by NikoZai, 11:27 PM 8/22/2002]


[Modified by NikoZai, 11:29 PM 8/22/2002]

 

i'd like to give you my praise on taking this on. i'm sure you have had endless hours spent doing research and designing. As for the quality of your gears, I have to say that if you are confident enough to put your name on them and run the 6061's in your car then that more than convinces me you have done the research needed. let me know if you are interested in buying cores. i have no need for cam gears at this time since i already use the Skunk2's on my daily driver and AEM's on my drag teg, but.... i think i have my old oem b series gears and probably a couple extra sets from old cars and customer's cars i swapped in the past. shoot me a pm if you are interested. good luck selling the gears and keep up the hard work.
-erik

 

Their old gears did slip, mine did, as well as many others. But this was also 4 years ago on their original 3 bolt gears.
I think that people remember that and thats why everyone always is quick to comment . It's just like people saying skunk cams break, when they didn't. They chipped away and destroyed rockers. And do ask how I know that either.

 

I'm still yet to see an AEM cam gear slip that was properly installed and torqued. To this date, unless something has changed and I am unaware of it, ALL AEM cam gears are 3 bolt.

Erik

 

my friend has his AEM gears slip TWICE after he had put on his new GSR head. he is methodical about torquing bolts to spec, so that was def. not the problem.

he had to buy new valves 2 times!!!

 

Your cam gears look good bro, nice work As far as the AEM arguement. I had their cam gears on my old motor, they slipped on me, torqued to spec, they still slipped, never used them again. Tried their FPR, and on the dyno, it consistently lost pressure, switched to a Vortech unit, and the problem was cured. Not to say that all AEM product is bad, but these two units, IMO, don't work as well as other companies product. just my .02