Can anyone tell me about their experience with Butterflies and the IM vs gutting them out. I have a f22a1 engine and am confused as should I leave the butterflies in and go through the trouble to find out what the a6 black box is and install it to open them up at high rpms . I am installing a h23 intake manifold on a f22a1 but I dont know where to go next, spacer, no spacer, double stack, or butterflies or no. I am lost!

 

I haven't seen a dyno chart of what happens when you add the spacer to the intake manifold of the H23, but i know a guy who added 2 spacers on the IM for his NA setup.
Not sure of what happens if you add a throtle body spacer.
And when you say butterfly, you're talking about the throtle body right?

 

Not 100% sure:

1. IM Spacer shifts the powerband into higher rpm range, doesn't add power. For f22 or F-series sohc stock it only revs bout 7K rpm max where you'll feel the torque & power drop off after 4.5 or 5K rpm.

2. Your TB need butterfly valve you can't run throttle without butterfly valve (or is there?)

 

he's talking about the IAB "plates." i can only speculate on changes in performance. does anyone have any real world or dyno experience with these modifications?

Blurry, i think what you can do is just run th H23 manifold as is (factory arrangement). since it's so easily accessable you can quickly make changes in the future and see what the difference is.

 

in order to run the h23 butterflies I need what is called the "black box" from the a6. I have yet to find anyone who can tell me what it is. I have been told gut the butterflies but I dont want to lose any more torque. I have already sacrificed torque by removing my cat for a free flowing exhaust.

 

the "black boxes" are usually a bunch of valves and solenoids to control vacuum lines to this or that. since the IAB is vacuum actuated the "black box" is likely controling when they actuate (or how smoothly they actuate)

it would be interesting to find out what they do routed directly to a vacuum port on the manifold... i guess as vacuum decreased with increase in rpm, they would slowly open...(key word: guess)

 

the "black box" you are referring to is a vacuum tank with a solenoid attached and vacuum lines.

the IAB's are more than just vacuum controlled, the ecu controls the solenoid attached to the vacuum tank if I'm not mistaken. Some who have swapped the H23 IM onto say a F22B1 have just run a vacuum line to the diaphragm that is attached to the IAB plate and gotten some results but to what extent I'm not sure.

here is a diagram of the vacuum tank, solenoid and vacuum lines...

 

First off: I know the f22a1 engine does not have the IAB's. The f22a6 does. From my project. F22a1 in a 92 prelude swapped in a h23a IM and removed the IAB butterflies. The car idled fine. Sluggish on the initial start and a tiny bit more power in the mid to high range of the power band. (not dynoed) This engine is not a high range power band. I rarely see any more power after 4900 RPMs. I shift at 5400 to jump in the beginning of the powerband.

Second: There are dyno proven tests. 2-5hp gain. But it all depends on the engine setup before hand. Black Trax makes spacers, 1 stack, 2x stack, and has dyno graphs on the web site.

Overall it seems to only benefit if you are preparing for a big NA build w/ larger cams or a forced induction build.

The double stack costs $150.00 but if your gonna go for it trade in your core IM and get the stage 4 job for $400.00 that at least sets you up for a larger Throttle body,complete polished and ported intake manifold and larger plenum for what ever future project you may decide on.

Good luck and hope this helps.

 

So all in all it's not worth the trouble of even installing the butterflies. Just gut them and add on a spacer?

 

I think Hondanark35 has the right idea, trial and error