LS/V & B20V Endurance
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: MI/AZ
LS/V & B20V Endurance
Hey HT, Im planning an engine build for street, road racing, road rally and auto cross.
It maybe used 2-3 days out of the week on street, and possibly 4-5 race events or track days a year.
I've been considering b20 and b18b bottom ends because of the torque advantages and of course availability and price.
Im aiming for the 11:1 comp, with eventually a B16 head will come into the picture but I'll get into that later after more research.
The thing is I've heard B20s and B18bs are whack but then again I see alot of people using them, and no one can give me a straight answer.
The drawing board so far has:
B18 LS Block, Crank, Rods
P73-A0 pistons
ARP Studs
ARP rod bolts
Bearings(Suggestions)
Spoon 2ply gasket
Spoon oil pump
B16 Head
Hand port job
Buddy Club valve springs and retainers
Valves (undecided)
ITR cams (undecided)
Well give me all your thoughts. This maybe a silly question but I've never used machine shop services. How much more durability can be assured by shot peening the rods, sleeving and decking? I would like to surpass the strength of the B18C if possible.
Shot peening or $Eagle rods$?
It maybe used 2-3 days out of the week on street, and possibly 4-5 race events or track days a year.
I've been considering b20 and b18b bottom ends because of the torque advantages and of course availability and price.
Im aiming for the 11:1 comp, with eventually a B16 head will come into the picture but I'll get into that later after more research.
The thing is I've heard B20s and B18bs are whack but then again I see alot of people using them, and no one can give me a straight answer.
The drawing board so far has:
B18 LS Block, Crank, Rods
P73-A0 pistons
ARP Studs
ARP rod bolts
Bearings(Suggestions)
Spoon 2ply gasket
Spoon oil pump
B16 Head
Hand port job
Buddy Club valve springs and retainers
Valves (undecided)
ITR cams (undecided)
Well give me all your thoughts. This maybe a silly question but I've never used machine shop services. How much more durability can be assured by shot peening the rods, sleeving and decking? I would like to surpass the strength of the B18C if possible.
Shot peening or $Eagle rods$?
Last edited by MKTurismo; Jun 25, 2009 at 06:33 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
get a ctr swap,
swap the internals for a set of ls rods and crank
have the block hot tanked,bored to 82mm and rehoned,
get 82mm itr pistons
get acl bearings if you have green clearences if not honda will do
get arp rod bolts and head studs
get an itr rebuild kit with new gaskets,seals,o-rings,pumps etc
have the bottom end balanced,the rods shotpeened for insurance(some say you dont need to and that its a waste but its not a bad thing nor expensive,your just taking precaution IMO)
break in the engine on a dyno and have it tuned asap!
a friend made over 200whp on a dynojet using this exact build along with some simple bolt-ons and has been doing similiar stuff to your plan for years without issues
swap the internals for a set of ls rods and crank
have the block hot tanked,bored to 82mm and rehoned,
get 82mm itr pistons
get acl bearings if you have green clearences if not honda will do
get arp rod bolts and head studs
get an itr rebuild kit with new gaskets,seals,o-rings,pumps etc
have the bottom end balanced,the rods shotpeened for insurance(some say you dont need to and that its a waste but its not a bad thing nor expensive,your just taking precaution IMO)
break in the engine on a dyno and have it tuned asap!
a friend made over 200whp on a dynojet using this exact build along with some simple bolt-ons and has been doing similiar stuff to your plan for years without issues
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,699
Likes: 0
From: Southern cali or boston
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
everyone is going to give you a different answer.
I really wouldn't recommend even asking the question. Even searching for an answer on the forums will suck because everyone has their two cents.
People did what worked for them, and it became "standard"
H-T is probably the worst place to ask for advice on a b20vtec build. A million different ways to do it, no "right" way.
I really wouldn't recommend even asking the question. Even searching for an answer on the forums will suck because everyone has their two cents.
People did what worked for them, and it became "standard"
H-T is probably the worst place to ask for advice on a b20vtec build. A million different ways to do it, no "right" way.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: pittsburgh, pa, usa
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
just so you know theoldone.com was making crazy 130+hp per liter with a b20 vtec set up not long ago..also know as energy dynamics. they are one of the best machine shops and mechanical specialists of our time.. alot of ppl just dont know about them..
i agree with the above mentioned that its kind of your thing.. different strokes for diff folks. i will say this. try and keep it simple. the more variables = the more chance it will fail. keep it simple. ive seen oem gsr's do crazy things with just pistons and headwork.. well above the 210 area anyway. also you can have 10000000 dollar set up.. without proper fuel and tuning = 100000000 pc of **** sitting in garage broke.
do research. id look in the all motor dyno section as well here at h-t. will give you an idea on what works and what isnt.
i agree with the above mentioned that its kind of your thing.. different strokes for diff folks. i will say this. try and keep it simple. the more variables = the more chance it will fail. keep it simple. ive seen oem gsr's do crazy things with just pistons and headwork.. well above the 210 area anyway. also you can have 10000000 dollar set up.. without proper fuel and tuning = 100000000 pc of **** sitting in garage broke.
do research. id look in the all motor dyno section as well here at h-t. will give you an idea on what works and what isnt.
Trending Topics
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
wow I must say I completely dissagree with what has been said above!
you can find and gather tremendous info off the net and forums like these?
you can find what setup gets good mpg,which ran reliably,which made better power overall,which made good power per $,which ran good numbers down the 1/4 mile etc!
all of this is available even here on HT, you even pick a better tuner by looking at dyno's whom have two graphs showing tuned by x and same setup same owner,motor tuned by z!
its best two learn from someone elses misstakes in order avoid it and that is whats best and available here!
you can find and gather tremendous info off the net and forums like these?
you can find what setup gets good mpg,which ran reliably,which made better power overall,which made good power per $,which ran good numbers down the 1/4 mile etc!
all of this is available even here on HT, you even pick a better tuner by looking at dyno's whom have two graphs showing tuned by x and same setup same owner,motor tuned by z!
its best two learn from someone elses misstakes in order avoid it and that is whats best and available here!
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: MI/AZ
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
^Yes I agree HT has been a tremendous help so far with my plans.
I haven't even made it to my 20th post yet but I feel like I've learned so much thats HT is pretty addicting to me.
The Dyno threads are really awesome to, because I can actually see setups done by other members and their graphs and compare it to my plans.
I haven't even made it to my 20th post yet but I feel like I've learned so much thats HT is pretty addicting to me.
The Dyno threads are really awesome to, because I can actually see setups done by other members and their graphs and compare it to my plans.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,699
Likes: 0
From: Southern cali or boston
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
^Yes I agree HT has been a tremendous help so far with my plans.
I haven't even made it to my 20th post yet but I feel like I've learned so much thats HT is pretty addicting to me.
The Dyno threads are really awesome to, because I can actually see setups done by other members and their graphs and compare it to my plans.
I haven't even made it to my 20th post yet but I feel like I've learned so much thats HT is pretty addicting to me.
The Dyno threads are really awesome to, because I can actually see setups done by other members and their graphs and compare it to my plans.
The same engine can dyno 20WHP different just on different dynos, not taking into consideration temp, elevation, etc.
Dyno is just good for creating a baseline and tuning with - or comparing back to back on the same dyno.
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
I don't know about other people chiming in this thread but I have built engines for road race applications with OEM and aftermarket parts. OEM is good, aftermarket rods and pistons are better, much better. You will make more power and survive extended trips to the rev limit a lot longer. Plus, forged components are a lot more resistant to damage from detonation. On final note, either get or modify your oil pan to include baffles.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: MI/AZ
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
even looking at dynographs is for the most part, pretty useless.
The same engine can dyno 20WHP different just on different dynos, not taking into consideration temp, elevation, etc.
Dyno is just good for creating a baseline and tuning with - or comparing back to back on the same dyno.
The same engine can dyno 20WHP different just on different dynos, not taking into consideration temp, elevation, etc.
Dyno is just good for creating a baseline and tuning with - or comparing back to back on the same dyno.
I don't know about other people chiming in this thread but I have built engines for road race applications with OEM and aftermarket parts. OEM is good, aftermarket rods and pistons are better, much better. You will make more power and survive extended trips to the rev limit a lot longer. Plus, forged components are a lot more resistant to damage from detonation. On final note, either get or modify your oil pan to include baffles.
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
This is the 1st one I could think of with the type of visual detail you need.
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=11995
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=11995
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,248
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
get a ctr swap, WASTE OF MONEY
swap the internals for a set of ls rods and crank USE THESE WITH LS BLOCK
have the block hot tanked,bored to 82mm and rehoned, USE 81.5MM BORE
get 82mm itr pistons
get acl bearings if you have green clearences if not honda will do
get arp rod bolts and head studs DON'T NEED HEADSTUDS
get an itr rebuild kit with new gaskets,seals,o-rings,pumps etc
have the bottom end balanced,the rods shotpeened for insurance(some say you dont need to and that its a waste but its not a bad thing nor expensive,your just taking precaution IMO)
break in the engine on a dyno and have it tuned asap!
a friend made over 200whp on a dynojet using this exact build along with some simple bolt-ons and has been doing similiar stuff to your plan for years without issues
swap the internals for a set of ls rods and crank USE THESE WITH LS BLOCK
have the block hot tanked,bored to 82mm and rehoned, USE 81.5MM BORE
get 82mm itr pistons
get acl bearings if you have green clearences if not honda will do
get arp rod bolts and head studs DON'T NEED HEADSTUDS
get an itr rebuild kit with new gaskets,seals,o-rings,pumps etc
have the bottom end balanced,the rods shotpeened for insurance(some say you dont need to and that its a waste but its not a bad thing nor expensive,your just taking precaution IMO)
break in the engine on a dyno and have it tuned asap!
a friend made over 200whp on a dynojet using this exact build along with some simple bolt-ons and has been doing similiar stuff to your plan for years without issues
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,244
Likes: 0
From: F.L.A.
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
Hey HT, Im planning an engine build for street, road racing, road rally and auto cross.
It maybe used 2-3 days out of the week on street, and possibly 4-5 race events or track days a year.
I've been considering b20 and b18b bottom ends because of the torque advantages and of course availability and price.
Im aiming for the 11:1 comp, with eventually a B16 head will come into the picture but I'll get into that later after more research.
The thing is I've heard B20s and B18bs are whack but then again I see alot of people using them, and no one can give me a straight answer.
The drawing board so far has:
B18 LS Block, Crank, Rods
P73-A0 pistons--------------------------------RS machine itr pistons 84.5
ARP Studs
ARP rod bolts
Bearings(Suggestions) ------------------------------i went with acl
Spoon 2ply gasket
Spoon oil pump--------------------------------------a reg itr one will do
B16 Head
Hand port job
Buddy Club valve springs and retainers----------i used S2
Valves (undecided)--------------------------------^^^
ITR cams (undecided)----------------------------i used S2 stage 2's
Well give me all your thoughts. This maybe a silly question but I've never used machine shop services. How much more durability can be assured by shot peening the rods, sleeving and decking? I would like to surpass the strength of the B18C if possible.
Shot peening or $Eagle rods$?
It maybe used 2-3 days out of the week on street, and possibly 4-5 race events or track days a year.
I've been considering b20 and b18b bottom ends because of the torque advantages and of course availability and price.
Im aiming for the 11:1 comp, with eventually a B16 head will come into the picture but I'll get into that later after more research.
The thing is I've heard B20s and B18bs are whack but then again I see alot of people using them, and no one can give me a straight answer.
The drawing board so far has:
B18 LS Block, Crank, Rods
P73-A0 pistons--------------------------------RS machine itr pistons 84.5
ARP Studs
ARP rod bolts
Bearings(Suggestions) ------------------------------i went with acl
Spoon 2ply gasket
Spoon oil pump--------------------------------------a reg itr one will do
B16 Head
Hand port job
Buddy Club valve springs and retainers----------i used S2
Valves (undecided)--------------------------------^^^
ITR cams (undecided)----------------------------i used S2 stage 2's
Well give me all your thoughts. This maybe a silly question but I've never used machine shop services. How much more durability can be assured by shot peening the rods, sleeving and decking? I would like to surpass the strength of the B18C if possible.
Shot peening or $Eagle rods$?
question what type of bolt-ons are your planning to run?
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
why do you think so? not that I care anyway!
the things you corrected in you own way dont even add up to 300 bucks? wtf?
even marc's own build that is right above is super close to that build I posted other than this one is 84.5mm and the one I posted is 82mm plus the ls block vs the gsr block. and fyi he got a gsr bare block for 200 bucks the ls parts for 100 and he was done in the matter of parts. in your case your going to get an ls longblock for atleast 150 + an ls conversion kit + the head drilling/machining plus the work to do it= more money! not to mention you can rework the gsr griddle,the oil injectors,reuse the proper honda built oil path all to have a IMO better built motor!
the things you corrected in you own way dont even add up to 300 bucks? wtf?
even marc's own build that is right above is super close to that build I posted other than this one is 84.5mm and the one I posted is 82mm plus the ls block vs the gsr block. and fyi he got a gsr bare block for 200 bucks the ls parts for 100 and he was done in the matter of parts. in your case your going to get an ls longblock for atleast 150 + an ls conversion kit + the head drilling/machining plus the work to do it= more money! not to mention you can rework the gsr griddle,the oil injectors,reuse the proper honda built oil path all to have a IMO better built motor!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 927
Likes: 2
From: North Carolina
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
^^^ No point in buying a CTR swap since your talking about changing the entire rotating assembly, and anyway a B16B block has the same deck height as a B18C. The CTR head just has a mild port job from the factory, and as far as im concerned OEM cams suck. Your friend could have just used a GSR block, LS crank and rods, some nice aftermarket pistons, a professionally ported B16 head, and some nice aftermarket cams and valvetrain, all for around the same cost while making more power than what you mentioned.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
my bad guys I forgot to say I would do the build with a gsr block and head, I thought I posted his entire build and stated I would do it with a gsr block istead but I didnt!
the reason he went ctr was because it was already in the car and didnt last too long after he wanted more bottom end and tq! and yes the ctr does have the same deck height as the gsr infact its the entirely the same block as the gsr,itr but stamped b16b which is cool cause you then get a b16 that really is a 1.9lt with that build!
the reason he went ctr was because it was already in the car and didnt last too long after he wanted more bottom end and tq! and yes the ctr does have the same deck height as the gsr infact its the entirely the same block as the gsr,itr but stamped b16b which is cool cause you then get a b16 that really is a 1.9lt with that build!
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: MI/AZ
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
listen to mar778c he helped me alot on my b20v build about 7months ago...my b20v made 217whp with his advice and a couple others..just do your research...dont buy cheap parts...and good tuning = blessings...so far ive had mines for 4 months w no probs..and its my dd..track atleast 2 times a month and i work about 20 min away from my house.
question what type of bolt-ons are your planning to run?
question what type of bolt-ons are your planning to run?
Also mar778c thanks for the Moroso link, and I will be asking for your advice in the future (+1 to contacts).
PS: Just found out that Password:JDM sales a B-series baffle kit for $30, hell of a bargain!
Last edited by MKTurismo; Jun 29, 2009 at 01:49 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 1
From: little place called HELL, us
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
I don't know about other people chiming in this thread but I have built engines for road race applications with OEM and aftermarket parts. OEM is good, aftermarket rods and pistons are better, much better. You will make more power and survive extended trips to the rev limit a lot longer. Plus, forged components are a lot more resistant to damage from detonation. On final note, either get or modify your oil pan to include baffles.
listen to this man!!!
Re: LS/V & B20V Endurance
MK,
You can PM me if you need. Also, speaking of good contacts mx621 is a very knowledgeable member and he has always given out sound advise.
Marc
You can PM me if you need. Also, speaking of good contacts mx621 is a very knowledgeable member and he has always given out sound advise.
Marc
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
The G2 Racer
All Motor / Naturally Aspirated
7
Dec 3, 2008 05:11 PM
