how's everyone doing? I currently have the stock diameter brakes that came on my Integra.

I have power slot rotors out back and cheapo (Lifetime warranty rotors) up front.
Hawk hp+ all around
Russell lines, and motul 600 fluid

As of rite now I am only running my stock B18b motor, but I am currently in the process of a k24 build. I don't compete with this car but I go to as many track events as I can find time for. The goal is 250 whp, and just very fun care.

My question is do I have enough braking for my new motor? Or if I did this same brake setup a 5 lug conversion (most likely more aggressive pads too) would I have a better piece of mind? I know that I could do a BBK but I would rather be able to get rotors from anywhere then just the BBK Company

Forgot, by the time this motor is in the should weigh around the 2400 mark with me in it.

I also fully understand that bigger brakes are always safer, I know the benefits. I am just a little uncertain if my brakes can handle all that. And if I go bigger would like to keep it as OEM as possible.

 

1. At the bottom right hand corner of any of your posts, you should see a little "Edit Post" button. Click that, and it will allow you to edit your post, rather than create two more to make additional points I've taken care of it for you this time

2. Those brakes will not be enough for your planned motor (calipers or pads). The ITR calipers will be a big improvement (with better pads), but will also have some limitations. Without knowing your experience, that would be a good step up, and something simple you could get used to. After you're laying down respectable lap times, you'll most likely have to look into something more serious (Wilwood, Stoptech, etc.).

Note that you can use ITR calipers while still maintaining your 4-lug hubs and wheels. Getting new rotors will be more of a pain in the *** (they need to be re-drilled Prelude VTEC ones), but with a little planning ahead it's not much of an issue. There are lots of very detailed threads with the information required to put that together in the archives, and a search will turn all of it up.

The BBK thing you mentioned, where are you located?

 

Thanks for the correction, I will remember that.

That's what I figured but I needed a for sure as for my stock brake setup. As for experience we still have to go up to CIR one of these days.

But as for my experience with brake setups; The biggest brake upgrade i've done was 90 ex in front and disc out back on my old 91 si hatch witch were a lot better then the Integra's setup now, but the civic was a lighter car.

I wouldn't mind doing the ITR calipers with my 4 lug, but like you said with the hassle is exactly what I don't want.

I am located in Arlington Hights, I just meant a big break kit for the BBK.

 

Oh ****, I totally forgot your user name!

And yeah, we will have to go to CIR one of these days, when I actually have money. Are you coming out to WMHM?

You could actually do a Wilwood caliper + ITR rotor or whatever now and be set. I think Fastbrakes sells an adapter kit, and the clappers themselves aren't too outrageously expensive (~$130 each, if I remember right). Some of the West Coast HC guys have been messing with that stuff recently, with good results. I believe they are using the forged Dynalite calipers (as opposed to the billet ones). Someone else (Walt?) was using the SL6 or whatever 6-piston unit, but that requires a wheel bigger than 15", if that matters.

 

I had the HP+ on track, and they are absolute garbage. By the end of the first few sessions they were tapered so bad that the pedal went halfway to the floor before they started stopping the car. They also wore a lot quicker than my previous pads, going through the set in 2 weekends (Granted one of them was CMP, but the other was RA in December). All this on a car that weighs less, with half of your intended HP.

I've had good experience with Carbotech. Their pads are cheaper than most "race" pads, and they have the best feel of the pads I've tried.

 

Voodoo, I'm surprised at that. I know lots of people who've used the HP+'s with success. I don't consider them a long-use pad for heavy braking or heavy cars (they just don't seem to last that long), but they were effective and definitely lasted longer than what you're talking about.

As for Carbotech feel, what I've experienced is the following:
-Carbotech has an easy, smooth initial bite, getting progressively stronger as you squeeze the pedal more.
-Cobalt has a grabbier initial bite, and stays pretty consistent as you dig into the pedal.

Lots of people like both, kind of comes down to personal preference. I'm a Cobalt man myself

 

HAHA, yea well as soon as I get a job, since I finally finished one of my schools I'll be going a few times a month again. Know anyone looking for a class A driver?

I want to come out to it, does it cost anything to just come watch? Because I deffenetly wouldn't have the money to enter it.(if its not to late already)

And yea I was thinking about that too with the fastbrakes and wilwood setup but that is one more thing I am trying to figure out is if I want stick with 15" wheels..? I only have 15x7 all around rite now. I've been debating on What over all size wheel I want, the only thing I know with that is my front wheels will be the minimum of 8" width.

But I have been considering 16" or 17"s

Hmm, I won't lie. I never really looked into the cobalt or carbotech pads. I've read some things about them on the forum but never really to much of a comparison between those and hawks(never looked for one though either).

On my old civic hatch I ran autozone blanks with hp+ on the street and I had another set of blanks with hawk blues that I through on when I went to the track. But with the blues they destroyed the cheapy rotors every other event.

 

Nope, totally free to spectate WMHM. Either I or one of the other instructors could give you a ride too, if you're interested.

For wheels, I'd go with either 15" or 17". Tire selection is crappy for 16". Both are being used with success by various people, though the 15" of course would be the cheaper route to go if you're on a budget (wheels, tires, brakes, the whole shebang). If you keep it 4-lug there are lots of wheel options in 8+" widths. To my knowledge, wide 5-lug wheels are hard to come by, at least in a 15" diameter.

 

I would be very interested, what day is the event on?

As for this whole brake situation, I guess I have a few things to consider..
-1 stay 4 lug with a big brake kit I can use 15x8+ wide wheels and save money on tires, but have a hard time
with rotors
-2 go with the 5 lug and have a harder time with 15x8 wheels but have an easier time with rotors and also bigger
And stronger wheel bearings. Also I would have an easier time finding 17" wheels down the road if
I decide to go that route...

I guess I'll have to put some more thought into this

 

July 25,26.

Sounds like a good plan Keep in mind too that this is all stuff you can change again down the line, regardless of what you decide on now. Your car will evolve over time, that's just a given with increased experience. If you jumped into a competitive H1 car right now, you'd be in deep ****, just because of how they're set up (that is, in a "looser" way, but with the knowledge that someone who really knows what they're doing is behind the wheel, and can control such a beast).

 

A few things.

1.) you wont/shouldn't have any trouble finding brakes and rotors. I bet it would be a very long time before you could/would need something more then say NSX front calipers, 1994 Acura Legend GS coupe rotors, and a spacer. It is not the end of the world when it comes to rotors. You have a few different options, buy the rotors from fastbrakes and always buy 2 sets at a time, or buy them from autozone/kragen/ect and re-drill them yourself (a drill press, and 30minutes is all this takes.)

2.) There are plenty of 15, 16, and 17 inch rims in 4x100. there are also plenty of 15, 16, 17 inch rims in 5x114.3. Rota Slipstream is available in 15x8 in both of these bolt patterns. If you can fit it under a 15 inch rim it doesn't matter the bolt pattern.

3.) the Wheel bearings aren't any stronger. It is the same exact spindle and wheel bearing for the 4x100 integras, they have the same part number even. The only thing that is different is the hub as it is drilled for 5x114.3 vs 4x100.


4.) now on the JDM ITR the wheel bearing is Different, as is the hub, but the spindle is still the same. So that means the the bearing is smaller, because the axle is bigger.

 

Why do the ITR guys complain all the time if there are wheels available everywhere? I'm basing my "wheel availability" opinion only on that, as I don't give a crap about 5-lug wheels

 

Hm, well thanks for the info, I deffenetly was misinformed by the bearing sizes if that's the case.

As for the JDM vs USDM 5 lug; I don't really have a preference to witch my only deciding factor would be witch set I would find in the best condition the cheapest.

I will also agree to the fact that I wouldn't need to go to anything crazy like an NSX caliper. But I also said that I am building this car to be very fun, all around car not to compete with(only against my self). So I will be taking it to the drag strip as well as track events where that extra lug would come in handy When the car is sitting on some slicks launching out at 7k.

I have a 95 si shell that if no one buys it by the time I get a job it will slowly turn into an H4 car to compete with.

Either way I appreciate the advise. And it starting to sound like a five lug with some wilwood dynalites is going to be the way I'm going to go for now.

Like stinky said, nothing is permanent and can always be changed.

Other wise I am very confident with how I want to build my car, it's just brakes are one of those few things that could save my life and I don't want to have any second thoughts about them. Thats why I asked the ones who know.

 

Maybe because they are hyperrrrr ARRRRRR guys and think everything for the ITR is unobtanium???

i know rota makes a 5x114.3 15x8 rota slipstream.

 

I highly HIGHLY doubt that extra lug is going to make a difference at the drag strip..

 

Yeah, I remember that, but I thought they were some stupid offset that didn't work on Integras?

I agree. Axles will break before lugs do.

 

Billy (texas H2/PT 99 prelude racer) ran them on his car. that is the only reason i know they make them.

 

I suggest trying out your brake current setup after you get the powertrain mods done. See how it performs.

I'm a big proponent of doing one step at a time, so you can see what the net effect is, and decide whether or not you really need another upgrade. You may find that you don't - and even if you do decide to go ahead with it, you can tell exactly what difference that upgrade makes. If you make a whole bunch of changes at once, it's often hard to discern how much difference each of them makes; you may think that the new setup is better, but ascribe the improvement to the wrong change rather than the one that actually made the difference.

Same thing for upgrading pads and rotors; if you do both at the same time, you won't know for sure whether any improvement was due to the pads vs the rotors.

It's particularly easy to hold off on changes to "consumables" like pads and rotors (and tires), since you will be replacing those on a regular basis anyway. If you want to try something different, just put on the other parts the next time you need to replace them.

Yup, that's been exactly my experience. It's a good dual-duty street/track pad. If you want something more aggressive for track use, and you don't mind swapping before and after events or living with the downsides for street use, then by all means get track-only pads; your choice. But I sure haven't experienced the problems you've described, and I've used numerous sets (10 or more) of HP+ at the track.

Just remember that 15x8 wheels are good for 225/45-15 tires, but are too wide for narrower sizes.

The NSX caliper isn't exactly "crazy". The front calipers are exactly the same size as the ITR front caliper, the only significant difference being that the NSX caliper has two pistons and the ITR only one.

Yup. The extra lug, by itself, isn't going to make a whole lot of difference anywhere. The performance differences of the 5-lug setup aren't due to the number of lugs, but rather, because of the availability of other parts (e.g. rotors) for one setup rather than the other. For example, I wouldn't expect any significant performance differences between a 4-lug and a 5-lug setup if both setups had the same calipers and pads and the same rotor dimensions.

 

i drove a friend 93 civic hatch with a k20z3 swap, R888, 94-01 integra brakes, and HP+.

the brakes last almost a lap... then they were gone...

After having the brakes fail/fad on me 2 times, I will ALWAYS want my car to have more then enough brakes... It is scary and takes away a bunch of confidence..

 

Its hard to find EXACTLY what you want for an ITR wheel. For example, I want a 15x7 +43 that weighs less than 12lb. If anyone has any, let me know.

 

Yeah, but you're picky Scott

 

Volk?

Enkie RPF1 (wont be able to run that offset for it though)


when your really picky about what you want you gotta $$$.

 

Volk does not have their line up on the website. I'd kill for some RPF1's to fit, love those wheels.

All I really have to do is get around to making my hubcentric ring/wheel spacer combo, then I am good to go with a lot of available +40 wheels. I'll get around to it eventually, doesn't look like I'm going to be able to get out on track untill October.

 

Sounds like "green pad syndrome", which happens with just about any street/track pad that hasn't been properly bedded. The first track session you get them really hot, and sometimes the second, they fade big-time. After they cool down, they're fine for the remaining life of the pad, with no fading at all.

Bed them properly on the street before you use them on the track, and you won't even have to worry about that first session, either.

 

I'm not refering to the brake fade, but to the lose of confidence; This is exactly what I don't want.

I would rather have more braking then I need then find out I have less when I really need it.

I really appreciate everyones input and help though.