Stock height / Car 94 civic ex coupe. 2nd owner, hood has a slight over bite so possible front end fender bender, passenger fender was replaced by previous owner so possible fender bender there too.

So I just got back from getting a 4 wheel alignment. every thing checks out except for Caster. Vehicle slightly drifts left. Here are the caster numbers.

Front left is 0.4
Front right is 0.8
Specified Range is 0.2 2.2

Cross Caster is -0.4

I spoke with the tech and he stated that It did not feel like tire pull and was 99 percent sure that it was a subrame issue and would not cause tire wear. The driver tire sits a quarter inch back further than the passenger tire. Is there a way to correct this with out going to a body shop to straighten the frame or should I just not worry about it.

Btw, I have recently replaced front lower control arm bushings on both arms. I have also replaced the rear trailing arms. could I have unbolted then rebolted anything here to cause this?

 

if the craddle under the car has ever been unbolted or taken off there is a very good chance that it can be bolted back up out of square which could cause the problem you are having.. is the car a salvage?

 

hmm im sorry man i think you frame is bent.

 

Unbolt the 2 of the sub frame bolts from the side you want to move and then one bolt from the opposite side so you still have one left as a pivot point. Get a pry bar and a friend to move it whichever way you need while you bolt it back up.

Have you done a ball joint measurement to determine if the control arm could be bent? Have you done cross measurements on the cross member to determine if that is truly your issue? If i remember right, the cross members in civics and integras have a fair amount of play. It seems like the entire crossmember is too far formard, which wouldnt happen from an acciadent

 

Honestly, the information I posted at the begining is all I went by. I took the car to firestone so I am wondering if I need to take it to a real alignment shop. Is there a quick way to determine if its the control arm or perform the cross measurements? I have feeling that I might have to take it to a real alignment shop. Civic is a clear title not salvaged.

BTW. I have recently swapped out flca bushings could this cause this?

 

Oh god, those places are a joke when it comes to diagnosing alignment issues. All they ever say is: Your frame is bent. Measure from the bottom of both ball joints to a hole in the body and to a hole on the sub frame. Make sure both sides of the car have the same holes.

 

then measure from the front corner to the opposite rear corner on the sub frame. The do the other 2, you can call this "X-ing" the sub frame if you want.

 

If i was you, i would take it to a body shop with a nice alignment machine. That's basically what i do for a living, diagnose suspension issues with customers cars. Insurance companies don't like when you take a guess on what you might think is bent and then come back with something else

 

you have been very helpful, thanks. Do most body shops have these alignment machines? And do you think me replacing the front lca bushings had anything to do with this, taking off those arms and putting them back on is pretty straight forward stuff.

 

dont waste ur time doin all that measuring and all that bull..that caster spread isnt even bad...4 tenths is actually a nice spread to the left..on a flat road it mite cause a slight drift left..but on a crowned road it should be perfect..but you should also post your camber #'s too..camber and caster can cause a car to pull..you cant just give us caster #'s and ask if the car should pul or not because other angles come into play..i would never waste my time tryna get that caster perfect..and before i wasted time messin around with the subframe and all that i woud just throw a kit on to correct it..but its not an issue..even you said its a slight drift...

 

i agree of this. -.4 cross caster isnt jack.

i want to see your "rear" toe numbers!!!

basically this...these are the things that can cause a pull.

-worn tires. number one issue and cross rotate the fronts to see if the vehcile changes.
-a loose suspension part...balljoint, tie-rod, inner tie-rods, suspension bushings, rack and pinion bushings.
-anything greater then .5 cross caster "may or may not" cause a pull.
-anythign greater then -.5 cross camber "may or may not" cause a pull.
-a brake pull....would pull while braking and slightly drift while driving.
-rear toe. uneven rear toe (thrust line) will cause a drift.

 

this is all great info. I have posted all numbers up top

 

Are you seriously suggesting its a camber pull? His camber cross measure is closer than the caster. For the most part, you want your cross measurements to be 0'd out. In a street car anyways, for tire wear and all.

He has a pull, if it wasn't enough to bother him, he wouldn't have made a thread. Stop flooding him with your opinions on fixing it of not. There is an issue to him, it may not be valid to your standards, but if the car pulls and it bothers him hey let him fix it.

I doubt you changed anything when doing the LCA bushings that wasn't corrected when they did the alignment. Try switch your front 2 tires/wheels and see if anything changes. As BaaWAH said, "-worn tires. number one issue and cross rotate the fronts to see if the vehcile changes."

 

i can tell you're one of those people that think wayyyyyyy too much..first of all i wasnt suggesting a camber pull because when i posted he didnt have the rest of the alignment #'s up yet..but when i see the numbers now..camber can attribute to the drift..

now..since u know so much about alignments and your so smart you can tell from his alignment readings that he has .4 of caster pulling left and he has .3 of camber pulling left..now if u add those together then you have .7 going left which CAN cause a drift to the left and thats what he is complaining about..when i set my alignments up i like to have .5 to the left for road crown..now if there is no road crown then he will have a nice lil drift or slight pull to the left..

so if you want your drift to go away i would use the camber to pull the car back to the right..i dont know where these people live but a car rarely comes in with even camber and caster..it doesnt really happen too often..not even straight out the factory..BUT PLEASE TELL ME YOU HAVE A CAMBER KIT ON THE FRONT OF THAT CAR..cuz if you dont im afraid they ripped you off..civics have no camber adjustment..and if you dont have adjustment then i'm afraid they just bumped the alignment head and didnt adjust anything..so no matter what u do the drift will always be there...

 

yeah..was just going to say that.. do you have a camber kit?

i also liek the fact that this great alignment tech adjusted SAI for you..quite a bit of .7 degrees!!??? bravo for the alignemtn tech to do such a good thing for you. lol

(SAI- Self axis inclination= is not an adjustable angle at all. it is a diagnosis angle used to find bent parts. unless you replaced a part right there on the rack there is no way SAI would have changed. .1 or .2 maybe...but not .7!!!

sometimes i wish i didnt do all the work on my cars including alignemnt. i cant wait for the day when some tech trys telling me.. "sorry..but your drift to the left is from caster i cant do anything more".

 

great! so all they did is make my steering wheel straight and I paid them 45 dollars. Thats it, I will worry about this when I get a camber kit. I am current stock height so It was my understanding that I didnt need a camber kit. When I get my koni/gc coilovers I will pick up a rear and front camber kit also. I will then take it to an alignment shop. With these numbers I am assuming I can drive like this for now.

 

yeah..you can drive like that.

if you dotn mind take a picture of your RF upper balljoint, RF upper control arm bushings, and possibly lower balljoint.

camber kits only come in those designs i listed above for 92-95 civic.

not that the tech can do anything more for you but i would defenitly take it back and ask how he adjusted your RF camber. i would speak to a manager and ask why the tech is bumping the sensors to make your angles green. i would ask for some money back or a free camber kit to take care of the camber angle that the alignemnt tech so clearly wnats to make green to make it within spec.

 

I rather not take my car back to those clowns. so do want pics of the passenger side? What will the pics reveal? The RF upper control arm bushings are the 2 that are bolted to the shock mount area correct? Just want to be sure, still a newb.

 

yes those bushings are bolted to the shock tower.

im just trying to find out if you do have a camber kit. those are the only areas that camber would be adjustable on a 92-95 civic. if you do "not" have a camber kit i would invest in one (30 bucks +, 30 install) and more then likely your drift or pull would go away.

 

30 bucks for a front camber kit? isnt that an upper arm,new balljoint and upper control arm bushings? Please send me a link to one in that price range man.

 

30 bucks + is what i siad. it depends on what you get. i will try to find somethings.

 

$45 for an alignment is dirty cheap!!! thats wut we would charge for a commercial account..well they did set your toe which is most important and will eliminate tire wear..if it woud have stayed where it was at u woud def have chewed up tires..i just dont like when techs lie and bump the alignment heads..i never bumped heads..not even if its a .1 of a degree out..i woud just let the customer see that its out..if you cant eliminate the customers problem then whats the point of bumpin the head..tell them their camber cant be adjusted and advise them wut to do..

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/rhino...Q5fAccessories is an adjustable up[per balljoint style with control arm for less then 30 a side.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95...Q5fAccessories
is the bushings being replaced for 25 dollars

you do get what you pay for so keep that in mind. you might be able to find a used camber kit here on this site that might be more of a brand name and more reliable.

if i was you...i would try to get the bushing style one. forget the control arm as sometimes the balljoint itself will rub on your inner fender over bumps if your low enough. also the bushing style one could be used to adjust for caster as well as camber which on your car caster is quite low. there never is any downside to positive caster. positive caster will increase returnability of your wheel and will increase stability at speed. high caster will also increase camber roll which will set-up your tires harder in a corner for better handling.

 

ok sounds like bushing style is what i need. I will still try to get those pics for yall.

 

so this is a picture of what the guy who did my alignment said he wasnt able to adjust it enough, that it was the furthest it went.
and thats whats making my toe go off line.
both back tires are off the line but my back right toe is way off.
is that my lower control arm thats bent???
or is that a
or could it be the bushings that was put on worng maybe?
or maybe a trailing arm,
what is that?