Here's what we're sealing with...

B18C5 RDOT acura replacement short block with 15k
Freshly rebuilt PR3-3 ITR head
New oem head gasket/ timing belt
Compression and leak down went great :D

Skunk2 pro 1 cams
Skunk2 valve springs/retainers
Spoon cam gears
AEM short ram (comptech icebox in the mail)
Spoon TB
Golden eagle rail
B&M regulator
NGK plugs/wires
Dizzy is OEM and works great
JDM 4-1 header
Blox test pipe
WS2 exhaust
Hondata s200

All basic things like fuel filter/oil etc have been changed.

First dyno session it made 145whp (190 crank basically on their dyno) and the cam timing was at IN 0 EX +4 Car felt alright but between the numbers and the way it felt, you knew something wasn't right. Valve lash was also way out during this tune/dyno session.

Fast forward a couple days and I get a valve lash done.

Car goes into another shop for a street tune, he sets the cam gears too his "quick settings" which is like IN +1 EX +2 or the opposite, I can't remember. They inform me that one of the cam gears had stripped bolts and they had to tap new holes

(So the above work done prior to this, when the car was on the dyno... the reason the IN cam was set to zero like it was when I dropped it off was because they didnt want to adjust it for fear of destroying the cam gear and dealing with a whiny customer right? So the first tuning session was a waste...)

So anyway, I pick the car up from the second session when the cams were at IN +1 and EX +2 .. and it feels just as slow as before. IMO the cam setup is actually worse now (*** dyno cause it's a street tune.

SO both shops have decent reputations... car is about 20-40whp short of what it should have made... so why?

No power steering btw.

Is the WS2 killing my power, is it the cam timing and tune.. is it the shitty aem sri?

Any ideas?

I also have the RMF narrow replica header and comptech icebox coming soon that should help.. but I'm gonna send the car in for another true dyno tuning session... just sucks that i have spent like 800+ on tuning and it's got me nowhere.

I'm so frustrated I'm either gonna buy a JDM b18c swap lol Or just go K already.

If it goes in for more tuning I'm also gonna try with the exhaust removed to see if the WS2 is a terrible bottle neck.

Please people any ideas? Car also has a pcv block off so the only crankcase ventilation is the valvecover to intake hose.

 

Don't quote me on this, but it seems like the numbers you are making are what a stock LS would make with similar mods, so the only difference I can see is possibly VTEC not engaging?

 

First off, your Cams need to be DEGREED. Not set to someone's "quick" setting or random pulls with guess work and improper repeatability between runs.

Read Skunk2's article on cams here:
http://www.skunk2.com/camshaft_tech.php

Then search on here for how to degree cams...basically you are finding where peak lift ACTUALLY happens and setting the cam gears appropriately.

The second thing I would suggest is that you dont have enough compression for those PRO1 Cams...at least not in my experiences.

 

skunk2 recommended setting the cams in at 0 0 and then just advancing and retarding from there and let the dyno figure tell you whats going on... as per a phone conversation I had with them.

Most people with these cams (and stock-ish motor) end up around +2 intake and +3-4 exhaust... which is nowhere near my setup, I would go outside tomorrow and try set my exhaust to +4 but then the tune would be out of wack.

I know that cams should be properly degreed but most people that drop cams in otherwise stock motors dont bother.. thats more for the people that have real serious built engines and more invested... at least thats my thoughts on the subject. I think the majority of people who have swapped cams in hondas just play with it while it's on the dyno.

I would like to think it's the cam timing and tune that are killing my power, but the shop that did the second tune has done this before with good results... so they say.

Frustrated.. I do thank you for the input and feel free to get angry with me lol.

 

Most people think you should make random cam changes while beating on your motor until you see peak power...

I dont get mad at peopl on the interweb, especially when they seem open to learning

Where peak lift occurs (in terms of crankshaft rotation) can vary because of a few reasons.

#1, quality control in the cam factory
- take (3) sets of cams with the same advertised specs and I will tell you they will all have variances. Cams made in factories in China (where most of them are) have great quality control (LOL) although they seem to be getting better.

#2, when you put those adjustable cam gears on the cam with the keyway in place, they wiggle a little dont they? well how many "degrees" do you think these things can wiggle?

#3, block and head surfacing or decking this will effectively change where valve events happen. even on stock cams, this is enough to cause a drastic change in power.

i'm sure there is more...

anyways...figuring out where peak lift is supposed to occur is the first battle, once you do that moving the cam gears a degree in either direction you may see a slight gain but not by drastic figures...

 

Here's what I dont get... you would think sk2 and other manufacturers would make sure that peak lift would occur when the cams were zero'd out like oem cams, to get rid of the head ache. I know that block and head dimensions will also have an effect on this.

I know what you mean though about quality control... lol

Well perhaps I need to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch... I was kinda concerned about compression and the pro 1's ... I was going to buy toda b's which I had on a previous motor and I dropped them in with stock cam gears and it ran just amazing ahhhh if only that were the case this time lol. I'm really not sure I would buy pro 1's again just because the idle with the todas is so much nicer... especially with aircare in BC.

 

i hav similar setup, stock b18c5 bloxC cams,skunk2 gear,super-tech valves spring n TI retainer,Rc440cc,wabro 255, highend header, aem intake wit velocity stack,tune p28 on crome

blox C cams mak 141whp was told the cams to big



switch to blox B cams different tuner shop mak 181whp could mak mor but then something wrong wit my compression

 

Its your tuners... i have seen a b16 and a gsr with similar bolt ons hit 190-200whp

 

find a reputable tuner

 

when i built my last oem style motor with pro1's i didnt have the tooling to degree the cams...i went with sk2's recommended settings and did some research on ht as well...in a thread somewhere tbone wrote that he liked them set at +3,+2 so i gave it a shot and picked up power everywhere...find a tuner with a real dyno btw,it helps alot

 

Also Blox C cams should produce WHP even on a stock B18c5 comp. is high enough... not decrease WHP....!

 

Your exhaust system is KILLING your power potential. You might be able to pick up 15-20 whp.