So I'm tired of driving my old turd around. It keeps breaking, and I hate having down time with only 1 car. So I'd like to get a fun car that's easy to work on and won't break on me so often. S2K seems to be one of the better choices for me. I don't think I will modify it too heavily, maybe just some small bells and whistles. But ultimately my question is, should I go AP1 or AP2? I see I can get either or for under 15k (15k is the max limit. I'd like to stay under.). I read that there are advantages to the AP2 suspension, and the engine is a little stronger, but is it really worth the extra coin? I figure with a few suspension bolt-ons, the AP1 can match up to the AP2 kinda easily. But I'd rather get the input of some veterans. Once a chassis has been decided, I can do all the follow up research with some lurking. Thanks for any and all input people.

 

AP2 is better in every aspect... all the AP1 owners have hardons because it revs to 9K but our cars have more torque, look better, and are better... go for the AP2...

 

I've had both....Get the AP2

 

i think i have more torque than most ap2's kyle too i believe

 

I'm on my 2nd AP2....

 

yeah and u both like guys... haha

 

Yes I do, I think 120 more then the Ap2

 

well...i don't plan on boosting...although, are ap1 motors better for boost? or any benefits for boosting them at all vs. the ap2 motor?

the hunt is on for an AP2 i guess...

 

Honestly, from my experience, the AP2 is better in every way except driving experience. Which is why I bought the AP1.

The AP2 is a lot more dulled down as far as reflexes. The engine is better. The trans is better. The chassis is stiffer.

I think that the fastest stock S2000 13.6 sec quarter mile pass was done by a AP1. That is...if 13.6 is still the fastest stock time. I'm not big on drag racing, so I wouldn't know.

Stock to stock, both cars are probably just about as fast in a straight line, though. AP2s respond better to mods.

Handling wise, I think stock AP1s have it hands down. They are more tempramental, but they are faster around corners over all.

AP2s are equipped better. They all have glass soft tops and 4 speakers (02+ AP1s do also). They have nicer center consoles and XM ready radios after 05. They have wider 17'' wheels.

AP2 axles and diffs are stronger.

AP2s also look better than AP1s, IMO.

All that aside...after driving both, I couldn't get over the fact that the AP1 was so much more fun to drive for so many reasons. The AP2's bus sized steering wheel and slow *** steering response really put me off along with the softer, more old man user friendly suspension.

My AP1 is pretty quick around the track. I'm very happy with it. It's faster than all but one of the AP2s I've encountered at HPDE track days...and I think he was just faster than me in straightaways since he had more mods. My car was less modded on handling mods too..but I felt as if I was catching him on every braking zone or turn.

If it was totalled or someone bought it for the right price (yeah, right), I'd probably consider going AP2 with like a AP1 steering rack and sway bars. I allready have coilovers and wheels...so I'd keep those if possible.

I'd still miss revving to 9k, and the AP1 "rawness", though. So I'd have to drive both cars back to back and decide if I had the opportunity once again.

Or just buy a NSX or Elise (yeah, right).

 

There's really no replacement for displacement. But S2000s don't really do well in the drag racing scene. If that's what you're looking for, maybe you should look elsewhere. Not that S2000s can't me made to drag race well...it's just that a lot of other cars would handle it much much better.

 

interesting input. a softer steering response eh? I guess that would be caused by the steering rack...but the steering wheel is that much bigger too? that's a pretty easy fix i guess.

I'm starting to wonder if the "twitch" that people complain about on AP1's is just a faster response that most people wouldn't be used to.

and although it's cool to rev out to 9k, i'm not very convinced that it's worth going all the way to 9k. does the ap2 really rev that far under?

I'm looking for reliability and mild upgradability. If I really can get a decent AP2 for under 15k, then I'll probably go with it.

And I'm not a drag racer at all. Quite frankly, I hate it. I wouldn't be looking at this car if I were. I enjoy solid handling, and easy to work on cars with low maintenance (cost wise and demand wise). This appears to fit all those bills.

 

you can rev an ap2 to 9k, just get the ap1 head on there or the cams alone would suffice. as far as i know the only major difference physically in the ap1/2 motors is the stroke of the crank and the cams. the rest are nearly the same aren't they? (not counting emissions, sensors, etc.)

for daily driving i would pick an ap2 over an ap1. but given that ap1's are cheaper, you have more money for fun stuff to put into your ap1. for example i'd pick an AP1 w/ hardtop over a stock AP2 any day.

 

why not just get an AP2 with a hardtop? I'm in no rush to invest in mods. I plan on holding onto the car for a while. and once again, i plan on keeping it relatively stock.

 

The extra stroke is the issue with revving the F22C out to 9k. Obviously, everything is over built for safety from the factory, so I'm sure 9k wouldn't really be much of a stretch since it allready revs to 8200.

 

When buying used, always buy the newest lowest mileage car you can afford.

When picking between the ap1 & ap2, go drive both and see which you like better. Performance wise, 0-60 and 1/4 mile are pretty much identical, however the ap2 gearing and torque make it feel much faster. The ap2 can be safely revved to 8500rpm...you can do this by either buying an MY06+ with a Hondata reflash or putting an ap1 ecu in a MY04-05 and controlling your right foot (might be able to use a Greddy EMU to limit rpm, but not 100% sure). An ap2 spinning to 8500rpm is much quicker than the ap1.

The ap2 does not respond any better to mods than the ap1 except with the above mentioned redline increase...and where afr tuning comes into play, the ap1 responds better since its fuel maps were much more conservative. But basic bolt-ons don't do anymore for the ap1 or ap2...bolt-ons for this car do very little.

The ap1 is quicker in the turns for about 1% of the driving population out there...it has turned in better times in each SCCA Solo2 National Championship since the ap2 came out except for this year where the winning ap2 was a CR (the CR is damn near an ap1 with the ap2 drive train). The ap2 is much better for the average American driver.

The ap1 & ap2 have identical axles...the part number is the same. The ap2 diff is marginally stronger (if you saw how much metal was added to make it "stronger" you would laugh). The ap2 has a CDV that reduces drive train shock, which is the primary reason the ap2 diff lasts longer.

For top performance, revving either car to redline is a MUST. Not shifting at redline on either car gives up time.

With suspension mods, both cars can be made to handle pretty much identically IMO.

The ap2 feels soft to me (its only the rear springs that are softer, but that extra rear body roll isn't my taste)...but the CR shocks/springs/swaybars or a good coilover set up transforms the ap2 and gives it 95% of the "rawness" of the ap1 with none of the twitchiness.

Adding a decent front swaybar and rear bump steer kit to an ap1 brings it's predictability inline with the ap2, especially when mating with some 17" rubber using the CR size stagger (or even wider front tires if you are running a big front swaybar).

There is one good reliability change in the ap2, and that is valve spring retainers. The ap1 intake valve retainers are prone to cracking when the car is over revved. The ap2 retainers are stronger and worth adding to the ap1 for safety.

As far as looks...that's subjective. Many like the ap2 look better...others like the ap1 look. I like em both. Although I do prefer the ap1 interior better (even the carpet center on my MY01). I especially like the ap1 instrument panel better. Others disagree.

 

awesome info negcamber, much appreciated.

amongst my mods, coilovers/sway bars were def. going on. and probably a CAI and exhaust (like i said...just some mild basic stuff). If I go AP1, it's going to be an '03, so I'll have the better interior anyway. If I go AP2, it'll be an '04. I can't say I'm the most advanced driver out there, but I'm certainly not an ordinary driver either.

are the diffs known to give out? i've heard rumor about the retainers cracking as well....i was thinking about doing a full engine refresh around 100-120k miles anyway. i figure tearing the engine apart can't be TOO hard...if AP1 diffs really do have some kinda "estimate lifespan" then I guess i'll just save myself the trouble and get an AP2.

 

ap1 retainers crack when you money shift and over rev your car considering you dont dragrace and put yourself out to be a decent driver you wont encounter this problem. I have not money shifted in the 2years of driving this car. Yhe ap2 diffs are know to be stronger but as stated before with the reatainers if you drive right it wont break dont launch the car or drift it by clutch kicking and ull be ok. My diff is still fine and i drive the **** out of my car. I heart my00

 

A CAI is a good mod for the car as it is prone to heat soak. The more popular are the K&N, AEM v2, and CT Engineering (formerly Comptech). Be cautious with the AEM and similar designed intakes. If you are lowered and drive through a deep puddle, you can hydrolock your motor. I know Atlanta gets some flooded streets sometimes, so definitely a concern for you.

Exhausts can be problematic. There are some that have lost power. There are very few that make power. Many of those exhausts are very loud and have drone. To get the most power, you'd need to use a single...and those tend to be the loudest with the most drone. Atlanta has a HUGE s2k club (check their forum s2katlanta.com)...before you buy an exhaust, ride in cars with the exhaust to get an idea of what you can tolerate.

There are 2 things that kill ANY s2k diff: 1) Launching; good launch technique will do less damage than poor launch (good launch requires breaking the tires loose). 2) Wheel hop; probably the worse thing for the diff are rumble strips at road courses and lifting the inside rear wheel on tight hard cornering. This kills the Torsen LSD and when it goes, it will take the rest of the diff with it.

The ap2 diff will handle more frequent launching because of it's slightly stronger carrier end caps. Neither will survive wheel hop.

My ap1 diff survived hundreds of hard autox launch starts w/ r-compound tires, several track days and a couple trips to the Dragon. In other words, I drove the **** out of it. It survived about 75k miles. I've got a friend who is approaching 200k miles on his '00 and is on the original diff...he drives spiritedly, but not insane.

Over rev is the ap1 retainer killer. But on any used car, you have no idea the history. Even a low miles car with good compression could have been over revved years ago, weakening the retainers. Replacing the retainers is not a tough job. With the right tools, you don't even have to pull the head. And it is really only the intake retainers that need beefing up. A reputable shop can change the intake retainers for $300 or less in a couple hrs.

As far as a rebuild...I wouldn't bother. The F20/F22 is one stout motor. So long as it has oil (and earlier ap1s tend to use more oil even when new), it will last. To give you an idea...I personally know a completely stock F20 that put down 600+whp when turbo'd...and that motor had 125k miles on it.

 

Hmmm...maybe I'll just stick with a stock exhaust then...

I'll only be able to do a few track days a year, honestly nothing insane. I *might* do a drift event or two since I'm part of DGTrials.

Thanks for the lead on the S2KAtlanta team. I'll be sure to join them when I get my hands on a car.

I'm not too concerned about being able to do an engine refresh. I'm a Master Tech. myself, and I'm sure redoing all the seals, gaskets, and retainers are way easier on this in comparison to what i'm used to.

What I'm liking the most is the general warmth the community is showing. You guys are showing true character to a new member. I'm sure there are a fair share of jackasses and tough guys, but that's in every car community. It's nice to see some knowledgeable and professional individuals.

I guess I'll just grab whatever I come across first for the right price and work on it from there.

 

Look on S2KI.com for your S2000. Usually find something pretty reasonable.

 

The stock exhaust is really not bad. It is heavy (53lb) and too quiet for some. The CR exhaust is a bit louder and about 10lb lighter than the base s2ks. If I were starting over on a build, I'd get a CR exhaust (they are surprisingly cheap...about $700 from most dealers) and do a "resonatorectomy" (remove the pre-muffler right after the Hemholtz resonator...leave the Hemholtz in to kill drone). That'll drop another 10lb and bring the weight very close to most aftermarket duals...and it'll bump up the volume without being deafening.

A TP can make a 5whp difference if you dare run one in your area. Get a 60mm TP if you keep the stock exhaust.

 

I don't foresee getting a TP. If I were to get that serious about it, I'd start looking at going turbo, or doing some kinda crazy engine swap (2JZ or something of that nature). But I really wanna keep it basic and low cost. The CR minus secondary resonator sounds like an awesome idea/option. Since this will be an alternative daily driver, I'd like to keep it somewhat quiet, and somewhat comfortable. Fortunately the roads of Atlanta are way smoother than where I grew up.

 

i have a few eyed up. i'll start making calls next week to see if i can make it happen, but these are what i'm looking at:

1. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ctd/1172242155.html
2. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/cto/1172154261.html
3. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ctd/1169591165.html

Obviously it would be best to test drive each of them and assess them accordingly. But I'm thinking that first one is the one (I <3 the black/red interiors..).

 

The one for $12.9k seems a little cheap...I'd wonder why.

The other 2 look very nice. The red/black interior is a little more rare and looks great too.

One mentioned something about a GE warranty. Careful...if that is an option, most extended "warranties" are void with ANY mods.

 

What year's drive by wire?