PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:01 AM
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Default PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

the QSF flange here is a product we recently started to carry.



T4 QSF Valve


Turbocharger too big or you just want it to come in faster and sooner?


This is a flange to make your twin scroll turbocharger spool faster and
reduce “Lag”. It allows you to shut off flow to one side of the exhaust
housing, in turn adding velocity and flow to the other.

Let’s say you have a turbo with a 1.0 A/R this would let you cut it down to a .50 A/R, but the best part is that you can open it up later in the RPM band to keep from choking the motor because of the smaller A/R.
Instantly spool it up before take off.


This has advantages in Gas and Diesel applications.

It is made of Stainless Steel to resist scaling due to the amount of heat in the system










Last edited by project dc2; May 14, 2009 at 07:40 AM.
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:12 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

that looks great.. how does it actually open in the higher end? pressure?
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:17 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

the pneumatic valve on the side is hooked up a pressure size

once it reaches 3 psi of boost itll start to open up. Of course, if you wanted to you can hook up an MBC to this and regulate how it works
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:29 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

pretty neat idea. price?
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:30 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Pm me for pricing
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:41 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

i made my own custom flange to see if i could spool my gt4294 with a 1.22 backhousing faster by blocking off oneside of a scroll, and it made my car slower in spool and very laggy. The car spools 10 times faster and has much better response without blocking oneside of the scroll.
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:43 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

spoolin wise it prob spooled faster. but your mid range and top end suffered greatly from being stuck with half of a 1.22 backhousing
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:51 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Question, If a manifold is completely divided up to the T4 flange and you shut 1/2 of the flange wont that be equivalent to having 2 cylinders spool the turbo????? If you plan on running this in a non-divided manifold w/ divided turbine inlet, i think you would better benefut to just a regular divided manifold with 2 gates.....


discuss
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:52 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Data From one of the testers of the valve ( Test vehicle was a Rear Mounted Turbo Camaro LS1)

here is the graph and average spool times to prove it.




reduced my spool time by 0.8 seconds. It doesn't sound like much but I can assure you it feels like a A LOT! A 33% improvement is pretty impressive in my opinion. Seven data points were picked with the fastest and slowest times discarded leaving five points for comparison.

Test turbo is a SX80 from forcedinductions.com. Specs on the turbo are:
1.25 a/r turbine housing
87mm turbine wheel
80mm compressor wheel
Race Cover with 5.5" inlet


For those who are going to ask me to post the graph in RPM, don't. Graphing this vs RPM is useless since I have a unlocked converter. It stalls to 3600 without boost and around 5300 with 12psi of boost. The graphs look identical when comparing the valve to without it. I would need somehow lock the converter to compare graphs in RPM. I would guess that the time graphs and gains would be similar for a manual transmission car.

I'm wondering if the 33% gain is coincidence or just how the physics works with sizing turbine housings. It's amazing to me that the number comes out exactly to 33.33% quicker when based on time. I wonder if it is like this for all turbos. Have the a/r and gain 33% faster spool.
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Old May 13, 2009 | 10:56 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Originally Posted by TDautowerkes
Question, If a manifold is completely divided up to the T4 flange and you shut 1/2 of the flange wont that be equivalent to having 2 cylinders spool the turbo????? If you plan on running this in a non-divided manifold w/ divided turbine inlet, i think you would better benefut to just a regular divided manifold with 2 gates.....


discuss
the turbo is divided but the manifold is not***


Sound performance has done testing on their patented version of the flange and has received great results on their valve setup

*** Disclaimer** this is in no way/shape or form to say that this SP valve and P.MWRK's Valve is the same. While the idea and concept behind it is indenticle, the way they're actuated is different as one uses a pneumatic valve and the other uses a dashpot valve.

Sound Performance's valve can be purchased from a number of their retailers and from them directly for a great price and service standing behind their products* Pictures shown here are to demonstrate the concept of the valve and effectiveness and does not directly correlate to performance and/or testing directly to the P.MWRK's valve


* If interested in purchasing Sound Performances Valve, their products are readily availble for purchase on their website http://www.spracingonline.com/store*






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Old May 13, 2009 | 11:33 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

I was follwing SP's version on SupraFourms, they picked up a good amount of spool with it. I would love to see a comparison of this product vs. a True divided manifold/turbine housing.

How thick is the flange?
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Old May 13, 2009 | 12:06 PM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

i used it on a non-divided manifold with a divided flange.
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Old May 13, 2009 | 04:16 PM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

yeah well thats not gonna be effective mid range or once you actually hit boost. Undoubtedly it will feel laggy .
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Old May 13, 2009 | 04:17 PM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Originally Posted by 96 GSR-T
I was follwing SP's version on SupraFourms, they picked up a good amount of spool with it. I would love to see a comparison of this product vs. a True divided manifold/turbine housing.

How thick is the flange?

i believe its 5/8
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Old May 14, 2009 | 02:16 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

in for a dyno comparison on a honda
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Old May 14, 2009 | 07:41 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Hopefully i can get one soon. not a lot of locals have T4 split divided turbo setups





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Old May 14, 2009 | 08:46 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

You might want to have them deck that flange more, the picture shows that they missed some area..
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Old May 14, 2009 | 08:47 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

Also, the rod would be a small restriction up top as well, but without testing, it is hard to see how much this would effect things..
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Old May 14, 2009 | 11:52 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

You can't deck these things they have to be ground down to spec.

The only thing is Stainless is non-magnetic you can't get the flanges to stay on a magnetic grinder table. I could make up a fixture, but it would add to the cost.

We COULD hook it up to a mill and mill them but that too will take extremely long being as how difficult and hard stainless is to machine. At the current price Point of these valves, We're afraid no one will pay the additional costs.

It will still seal with no problems.

shaft and butterfly hasn't been seen to be a restriction on high HP setups such as the ls1 camaro nor the turbo supras running the same valves
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Old May 14, 2009 | 01:00 PM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

cool
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Old May 14, 2009 | 01:13 PM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

NIce product. I was alwasy wondering about doing this. But none of my cars got that big a snail on them lol
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Old May 15, 2009 | 05:53 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

get one ! haha
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Old Jun 2, 2009 | 07:19 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

quoted from a diesel truck user of the QSF flange

Basically the idea is to shut off half the dual volute turbine housing to make gasses accelerate really fast to the turbine wheel under low/part throttle conditions. As the boost builds an actuator opens the butterfly valve to allow almost a full open exhaust gas passage to both volutes. I say almost full as the shaft and butterfly are still in the path of the one volute but with it full open it is a minimal restriction.

Now, this is how I have mine setup

I have a pdi t4 manifold which is obviously divided. I have an ED t4/t4 1" spacer plate which my wastegate is welded to. This spacer was previously divided. I removed this spacer and undivided it with a combination of sawzall and cut off wheel/die grinder. Because of the wastegate tube interfering I had to run the quick spool flange with the actuator portion facing down not up. It was no problem to run it this way and have pleanty of room. Now, in clearencing the ED plate I didn't quite remove enought material so I get a little bit of interference as the plate tries to open all the way. Further, I placed a return spring on the opening lever of the flange to aid in returning the flange to the closed posotion in case of any interference. So far it's worked out wonder full for me this way. The actuator comes with a 4psi cracking pressure and a 10psi open pressure. I run a boost elbow with the adjustable allen screw in the air path to reduce the signal even further if I want for later cracking pressure. I have it pretty much backed all the way out for full air and may divert this regulating device over to wastegate regulation in the future, more on that later.

Driving impressions:

This turbo now spools better then the ball bearing t66 that was on the truck (s468 as the thread implies). Cruising egts at 70mph are about 100 degrees cooler and cruise boost is about 5 psi there, before it was about 2 psi. The turbine screams all the time now where as before the flange it was barely audible. Flooring the truck while not shifting manually now results in 60+ psi pretty quick. Before the valve the turbo would barely get to 60 psi. Now it pegs the gage in a hurry. I need to verify drive with this valve as my gut says it has increased and I may need to start using my wastegate. Without using the wastegate I previously had just under 60psi boost for 64 psi drive.

Keep in mind that I also bumped the timing when putting this flange on. I was fighting a timing issue which had me around 15 degrees at the time just prior to putting the flange on. I am now at 26* and the turbo still lights this much faster.

I honestly think these flanges have the ability to make large s472 and up charger more realistic for the street strip guy with some tuning. That too me is awseome being the idea of having small twin air with the same driveability all out of one turbo. Now, in a custom twin setup you could cover a much larger range of power.

Things that had to happen to fit the flange.

I had to make a spacer for my down pipe which consisted of welding two s400 v-band flanges together to move my down pipe 1" farther back. You will have clearence issues with the trans and frame if not atleast in my combination. Everything else required no modifications other then modifications I previously did to fit this turbo and gate (having to trim intercooler pipe on both ends to use current discharge elbow).

I believe there are going to be a few versions of this flange offered in the near future and if you were in the same boat I was in (wanting better spool out of a big single with the big single air) then imho you need to give one of these a shot!!! All that's required is a small small bit of fabbing and some ingenuity!
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Old Jun 27, 2009 | 11:01 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

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Old Jun 28, 2009 | 09:50 AM
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Default Re: PERF.MWRK Brings out the T4 QSF Flange !! Faster Spool ! big turbo !!

bump
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