I'm posting this in road race/auto-x because this a road racing specific application. I think if I post in the engine section I will get a lot of extraneous input.

Well the old ITR is up to about 2 quarts per hour on track, and oil is not leaking or blowing out. A little uptick in leak down and 129000 miles tells me its time for a ring job.

I'm running NASA PTC against a very competitive field, plus I know of at least 2 other serious builds in progress. I can use some more power. I don't have any specific h.p. goals in mind because ultimately the class is governed by HP/Weight. I could get there from about 190 whp, but that would involve a good bit of work and money. More that 220 would be overkill. I'm trying to figure out the best parts combo that meets the rules.

What I need from the engine:
-Widest possible area under the torque curve over at least a 3500 rpm power band.
-9500 rpm redline
-Stays in tune. No track tuning allowed. Has to stay where you set it on the dyno. I plan on running one brand of race gas to take out a variable.
-No hand grenades. I need this motor to last multiple seasons with some enduro racing thrown in.

Rules:
- up to a .5 C/R increase
- any cams, keepers and springs
- any internals, but I think more than forged pistons would be overkill
- any injectors, fuel rail, fuel pump, if needed. Fuel pump is a "free" upgrade, stock injectors and rail would be best.
- Any engine control. A fuel controller is "free"
- "not listed not allowed" so stock valves, porting, etc.

I'm having trouble sorting through all the build threads out there. Looking for dyno charts of various cam profiles at my C/R and RPM limits, and fuel flow requirements.

 

If 190whp will get the job done, then i'd just do a "oem/IT" rebuild.

I have seen 2 or 3 b18c5 motors make 185-195whp completly stock (JDM motors with higher compression then the US motors).

 

What he said^

 

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190 will get the job done, but to get there would involve some high dollar parts to get the last 120lb or so. If I already have to do an engine I think it would be cheaper over all to try to build 205 to 210 to get to my Power/Weight.

I have to change pistions to get any c/r increase. As long as I'm doing that I might as well go to a 11.4 aftermarket piston and maybe a bit off the head to get just under 11.5. Then the question is what cam's to use with a 8800 - 9000 redline? And can you make 210 on the stock fuel system?

 

Forwarded this onto a knowledgeable builder/tuner, we'll see what he says. I think the stock fuel system will be the biggest thing holding you back.

What kind of budget are you dealing with, and what header/intake do you have currently? The compression you're talking about could be reached with OEM JDM ITR pistons and a little mill of the head.

 

I agree, you don't really need to need that crazy of a build but it sounds like you keep wanting to go for the crazy build...

the stock fuel system should be fine, maybe upgrade to a to a walbro 250 something or other fuel pump.

OS JDM ITR pistons, and whatever flavor cams you want. I'd just search for 1.8l dyno charts and look for something that isn't that peaky.

You should be able to get your ITR down to 2400lbs with out spending any money

 

OP, your goals are very modest. Here is a thread where I posted most of the specs and a dyno plot.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...583606&page=15

The motor has 30K+ miles and nearly 90 dyno pulls. Also, this motor has been drag raced for the last 2.5 yrs and it consistently traps 102 mph on street tires and 108 mph on 22" slicks.

The good thing about this motor is it is a little better than a stock rebuild.

If you take this same motor with forged internals and a set of cams with better than 12.2 mm of lift, it will produce 11 more whp

 

Pro1, BC4, BloxC, etc.

Yes, the stock fuel system is good for a lot more than 210 whp.

 

Or less, right? I've seen a number of Integras in the 2250lb range with very little in the way of lightweight parts (CF hood only).

 

There's a all motor 1.8L thread in the all motor forum.

 

That is a modest goal indeed.

-You can take care of your C/R increase efficiently by either milling / decking, or less favorably going with an JDM ITR piston.

-The cam that might be best for you is the PRO1 Skunk2 cam. When these are degreed properly they can make excellent power, but unfortunately they are often not installed properly.

-Not needed unless using an exotic piston design.

-Injectors are going to be a must here, esp in the case of a possible endurance engine. You will see people that are making more than 220 with stock injectors, but its not safe, you are either running an outrageous base pressure, or over running the fuel injector to the point of damage.

-Hondata S300 would suit you fine, although there are better options out there for more money obviously that may yield you more consistent results. Not in anyway saying that Hondata is bad, but it is limited in its control over different atmospheric and temperature changes.

You could easily achieve your 200-205 range power goals. Although keep in mind, dyno's can read all types of different numbers, when searching build threads, keep this in mind. Numbers really don't matter, dyno's are only a tool to see if the changes you are making at that session are infact making an improvement or not. Not to compare engines to each other accurately.

sander

 

2400lbs is easy to hit without working very hard at. 2250lbs? Not so much. It's my target for my DSP build, but I'm still at least 125-150lbs shy of that. A base teg without the bigger brakes, narrower front wheels and tires, and a couple of other little things might make a sizeable difference.

 

I know of two Integras now that are right near that 2250lb weight. One has a cage, stripped dash, ITR front brakes, K-series engine, CF hood, splitter, aftermarket wing and bucket seats. The other is similar, but a rollbar instead of the cage, and B-motor instead of the K. I believe the H1 cars are in a similar range to reach their 2450 race weight, or whatever it is.

 

I have seen plenty of integras that weight 2400 with driver no problem, but 2250 with driver may be tough.

 

That 2250 was without driver, sorry if it sounded otherwise.

Edit: Or if I confused Jimmy's comment as being without driver.

 

Yes I was talking about the car with driver as the car comes off of the track from a race.

 

Thanks for the comments so far. To clarify a couple of things:

I didn't mean 9500 redline. More like stock limiter, 8700?

The dyno numbers do matter to me because of rules:


here are some example "adjusted" HP/Weight calcs:

HP Comp Weight with driver
195 2200
206 2300
217 2400

I'm 2560 now. I think I can take off 100 more pounds easily, another 100 with some effort and money, and maybe another 100 with a lot of money. This is with a full road race cage, so comparison to drag/auto-x weights may not be valid.

I guess I do have a HP goal of around 205, but it has to be over a useable range, with good area under the torque curve.

I don't quite understand the pros and cons of decking vs. pistons for increasing the C/R. If I build with stock pistions then I have a motor that is I.T. legal by going back to stock cams. Milling is a one time deal, If I ever warp something and have to mill then I am looking at finding new cores. I have to run a B18C5 block, and useable cores do not seem cheap nor easy to find. This might be a decision to leave untill I see what kind of piston to wall clearance I have now. If I have to overbore, I might as well deck it in the process. If its just a hone and new rings, I might be tempted to just go with pistons. That way I know the engine can take another rebuild.

Currently running a comptech header and a generic CAI.

Again sorry this is in the RR/Auto-x forum. But I'm getting a lot better input here, from people who understand my kind of racing than I would in the all motor drag forums.

 

No apologies necessary, this topic belongs here. Motors are a part of racing, right?

Unless I'm mistaken though, milling refers to the head and decking to the block. Finding a B16/B18C5 head is pretty easy, so if you screw it up it's not the end of the world.

 

If reliability is a big concern, I'd do a mild build on the motor. Just use Supertech pistons and valve train to achieve the target c.r. Get a good intake manifold and cams like toda B. Not too agressive cams so it's not too hard on the valve train. Make sure you don't run on pump gas to get more consistency.

 

Milling/decking has to do with quench pad and "squish". There is power to be had with thought out piston to head clearance. But you are right, you do lose your buffer zone interms of mishaps with warping in that case. Your call either way. I did not mention thing that Andrie just had said there too, consistency is much easier with race fuel in regards to octane.