Hey fellas,

I need some feedback about this topic. I recently sold a guy a set of rockers from my head. His head porter informed him that I messed up by sending him the rockers without being tied together to their specific sets and that "Youre not supposed to mix these up, they wear evenly, as matching sets, and mixing them up could cause problems."

Granted, I know everything in one head will wear to a specific pattern, but once you take one part out from the equation, it will never have the same wear pattern again. Like in this case, he only wanted to buy a set of rockers from me, nothing else. I figured it'll be going in a different head with all different components, I wouldn't need to have to pair them up separately.

I've mixed and match rockers from my heads before without any issues at all, but just wanted more opinions.

Thanks

 

I am the head porter in question.

You're not supposed to mix them up, I thought this was common knowledge. That's why you cant buy just 1 rocker from Honda, you have to buy a set of 3. Receiving them in a big all jumbled up is a no-no.

That is my opinion.

 

Could you explain to me the affects of putting rockers from one head to another and even wear patterns? With consideration of using different valves, rocker shafts, and cams?

I understand you cannot buy an individual rocker, and that it is textbook to not mix them up. But practically speaking is it really going to make a difference when different components are going to be used?

 

I always pondered this myself, used head, used rocker arms, but new cams and new valves? In my opinion it be like using old rotors with new brake pads, which would lead to transfering of previous wear patterns from the old rotors to the new pads.

 

Things that do not seem like a "big deal" are done in order of preventative maintenance. While I cant garuntee a problem will occur with mixing and matching rocker arms, it heightens the risk. Just like I cant garuntee that running .0015" rod bearing clearance @ 10krpm would be a problem, I would like to see .002" in order to prevent disaster.

 

you are not supposed to mix them up but many have and will.....i have mixed them all up and used diffrent ones from diffrent heads etc....they seem to work alright as long as they dont have any excessive wear showing and the lash is checked/set a few times within the first 500 miles or so.

 

The rocker pads for the 3 rockers are machined together. The reason being is for VTEC to work. There is not alot varying machine numbers to get .0003 pins to lock up. Most threads about VTEC not working, probably has to do with mis-matched rockers.

 

I've mixed and matched rockers before and NEVER has any issue with vtec not operate correctly. Like somone already said earlier in this thread, as long as minimal wears on the rockers and the lashes are checked and adjusted then there shouldn't be any problem.

 

Good info. Let me ask you this:

If you were doing a head for somebody, and this situation arose would you not at least give the customer a warning, such as I did? I told him there probably wouldn't be a problem, but there COULD be. Much of engine building is avoiding unnecessary risks.I just wanted to inform the customer. Maybe I should stop being so honest, and if there did turn out to be a problem down the line, I could just sit there, bold faced and say "gee man, I dont know what could have caused this".

 

To the OP, are you fishing for information to provide this "buyer" as an explanation as to why you won't refund his money and take them back?

 

How many times? Out of the last 10 times you did it, how many had VTEC engagement problems? When you locked the pads together, how much were the pad height differences?

 

Over 50 times. And out of the last 10 times that I did, I have ZERO problems with VTEC engagement. When I locker the pads together, the pad height never exceed 0.003". Or maybe I'm just that lucky..

 

To FST GSR: You really ought to get all your facts straight before you start making assumptions or acuisations. I posted this question for my own sake of knowledge. I already gave the buyer an option to return the rockers for a full refund if he was not happy with them and the issue has been resolved. This issue is not of your concern.

To Combustion Contraption: You did the right thing giving him a heads up and no where did I say you did anything wrong, whether direct or in context. I also did not say you should not be honest with your customers.

I only posted this question to see what the consensus was over the issue because I did not think it was ever a problem, from my experience/opinion. I also told Jeff if he was not happy with the rockers, that I'd refund his money once he sends the rockers back. No harm no foul.

 

To DonF: Personally, I have mixed rockers on 7 VTEC heads. (4) H22 heads, (1) GSR head, & (2) B16 heads. None had any issues with VTEC not engaging. I am not saying it is not impossible for it to not happen, but just from my experience and experiences around me, it has never been a concern. I just double check & adjust the valve lash a few times during the first 500 miles, then check them again if valvetrain gets noisy.

 

Maybe it's none of my concern, regardless of how it was worded, but "I asked the question for my own sake". Most of these posts seem to head that way.

Glad to see the issue was resolved fairly for both.

 

What are you doing to these 50 heads that you cannot keep rockers together in sets of 3? Its not that difficult, rubber band during disassemble work for me.

 

Why do it right? Slide out the shaft, slide on the rockers in sets of 3 when you remove them. If you keep the shaft oriented you will actually know if they are IN or EX. More rocket science. CRX the large hole in the shaft that takes the restrictor goes toward the front of the head.

 

Did I hear "rocket science", LOL.

You will reap maximum benefit of keeping them matched when using the camshaft that created the wear patterns.

 

DonF:
So far, I've taken that:
1) If rockers are mix-matched, the differences in pad height may cause VTEC to not engage due to pin locker alignment.
2) Because of this, rockers must be kept in their respective sets. Correct?

Now what I would like to understand:
If one is using rockers from one head, brought over to another that has completely different components like valves, valvetrain, & camshafts, how would that affect pad height differences on the rockers?

I understand that everything in the head will wear to a certain pattern, but once you replace those components wouldn't the wear pattern be null? They'll just have to wear into the new pattern with the new parts?

Absolutely. I will agree to that 100%.

 

You are in the yes, and no area. If the rockers are kept together, the only thing that will change with new valve train is the valve adjustment per valve, if wear is not appreciable. Swaping some EX to IN rockers willie nillie will change wear patterns unless the the cam profiles or each are(primary) are identical. How do you swap a rocker that has been on a narrow primary lobe to one that has been on a wide primary lobe? Actually I do realize how hard it is to do it right, probably an extra few minuets, why bother? I can understand how much time you save by not keeping rockers, cam caps, main caps, rod caps where they belong. Just an old guys outlook, they will eventually fix themselves.

 

DonF:
I have been very professional and courteous to everyone that I have debated with. There is no need to be sarcastic in context or insinuate that I am not willing to take a few extra mins to do things "the right way". I was under the impression it did not make a big difference since I've never heard of an issue doing so. I was mistaken and that is why I offered to correct the problem. Even so, I just wanted to understand how crucial pad height differences played with differing components. I did not advocate one should mix and match nor that you should not take the correct approach. It was a simple question that a simple answer could resolve. That is all, no harm no foul.

 

Not sure if it makes a big differance or not. Doing it right is not a big deal, (well to some it may be) Honda/Acura thought it was important, and I have repaired (expensive) some engines with miss-matched rockers. I guess my logic is,why not do it as the manual says. Keep the rockers together, not real Rocket sience, especially the Rocket i know. LOL

 

That was really funny.

Mods, you can close the thread as the question has been answered.

Thank you to all that have participated.

 

I do not like saying this, but trust CC. LOL He knows. Where are the smileys wen you need them?

 

here you go don simlies for you...



better for you don