For those of you running DC2 Integras and have the ASR subframe brace, here's a thread I started for fitting the Cusco 18 mm bar.

For those with rear spring rates large enough that 22 mm or larger rear bars aren't necessary.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/install-cusco-18-mm-rear-swaybar-asr-subframe-brace-2559657/

 

ur gonna need a bigger BAR ! cusco sux

 

Other than on a street car, I really can't imagine anyone not wanting at LEAST an ITR rear bar on an Integra.

Aside from that, thanks for the detailed writeup.

 

I'm running 671 lb/in front, and 783 lb/in rear. Stock 24 mm front bar. Add poly bushings all around (almost all around) and the cage to further stiffen the chassis and I think I'll be good. But I could be proven wrong.

All previous cars I've owned have had softer rear spring rates and all exhibited easy, and excessive lift-throttle oversteer. (one was a 94 Integra RS with stock suspension, 1" front and 3/4" rear bar) One even exhibits "any-throttle" oversteer. And the chassis on this car is going to be stiffer than both cars, and the rear end even lighter in comparison. So I'm going to start smaller with this setup.

Again, rotation is driver's preference. I'd prefer to know that if I have to lift or apply the brakes suddenly in a turn that I don't do a 180 and smash my car into a barrier. That's just me though. :-)

Appreciate the input. It's also nice to know that some people have brand loyalty! :-p

 

I'm rumming 1200LB rear springs and a 24 MM rear bars so am I doin it wrong?

And I'd get rid of the poly bushings as the bind up your suspension. Honda bushings need to move on more than one axis.

 

Poly bushings aren't bad, you just need to know where NOT to use them. You don't want to use poly for the large 3" rear trailing arm bushing, and you don't want to use poly for the front compliance bushing. I've run both poly and rubber for the 3" rear bushing in my CRX, and rubber is A LOT better. Of course, if you have rotation problems you can use a 3" poly bushing as a hack, but I don't recommend it. It was better than the old, shredded rubber bushings though.

Regarding springs and swaybars, no you're not doing it wrong. It all depends upon your setup. Just through my experience with my past Integra, and my current CRX, you can overdo rear swaybars. Even though everyone pushes bigger, BIGGER, BIGGER!!

A friend of mine also owns a GSR. Same PIC suspension and also runs the ASR brace with the ITR 23 mm bar (OEM endlinks). He told me that his car exhibits lift-throttle oversteer easily, which he likes. But he's also running OEM rubber bushings all around, and doesn't have a roll bar or cage in his vehicle. Another friend of mine, Gabe, who is on the other thread has a Civic with GCs and a 19 mm rear bar and his rotates perfectly fine. He doesn't want a bigger bar. He wants to get rid of his cheeky MFactory brace though and switch to the ASR.

You have a lot of variables besides just springs and swaybars. Poly bushings will stiffen up the rear of the car quite a bit. Add a roll bar or a cage, and you've got a large improvement (compared to how the car was originally). The front of the car is pretty solid as it is, but the rear improves greatly with these changes. So suspension adjustments in the rear don't have to be as drastic compared to a stock setup. The swaybar endlinks also play a factor. Most people running ITR bars in the rear are using the OEM endlinks that have rubber bushings in them. Running spherical, or solid steel endlinks, makes quite a difference as well. There is absolutely no solid data behind this next statement, but I've heard that rubber swaybar bushings can reduce the bar's effective diameter up to 2 mm. (maybe more, maybe less)

You'd be surprised with the improvement of replacing OEM rear swaybar bushings with poly and using spherical endlinks will do by itself.

The CRX I currently autocross exhibits excessive rotation, to the point that it's limiting my lap times. I have an HF frame so I don't have rear swaybar mounts, and at the time (maybe there are others now) the only swaybar upgrade was the ST 7/8" front and rear bar because it uses the rear toe hooks as the mounting location. I've even put 2" extensions on the rear blade to soften it up some, and it's still too much. It doesn't matter how hard I mash the accelerator pedal when taking a corner. If I'm going too fast the back end is the first thing that goes, period. Regardless of weight transfer. Honestly, my lap times don't change much when I add an 180 lb passenger. My acceleration and braking is worse, but the extra weight helps keep the back end planted so I go through the obstacles quicker and smoother. I even ran with a 40 lb bag of water softener salt in my trunk for a short time.

All I'm saying is that you CAN oversize a rear swaybar. If people want nothing but oversteer that's fine. But I'd like my car a little more balanced, maybe even a little trail-braking would be nice.

Your suspension setup might be perfectly fine. Some people run stiffer front springs, some stiffer rear. Some people add bigger swaybars, some people keep OEM, some put on smaller OEM (especially for fronts), or remove them entirely. Every car is different, and some people prefer a touch of understeer instead of oversteer—even when racing.

Technically, a swaybar upgrade is the last suspension adjustment that you should do. But since it's cheaper and a lot easier than all the others it's generally the first...

 

Court has done his homework on this. For his setup, I think the 18mm bar will be more than adequate.

 

Interesting points, court. Not that I'll ever be able to (or that you'd be willing ) but I'd like to drive your car to see how it compared to other Hondas with different setups.

 

Thanks. Sorry if I appear a little snooty above. I've just had "experiences" with large rear swaybars, so I'm always squeamish when I see people recommend monster-sized rear bars. Some people have difference experiences, those are just mine so I like to share if people have similar setups.

By the way, I have seen an R32 autocross. It is very comical...

 

You didn't come off as snooty, and you did bring up things I hadn't considered/experienced personally. Likewise, while you've had "experiences" with large rear bars, I've had experiences with small rear bars (albeit on cars less prepared, and thus not accommodating the points you made). More information the better here!

 

Here is a thread that has been posted about polly bushing.... https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...=Poly+bushings They are no good!!! Every honda bushing moves on more than one axsis and the ES bushing do not allow this. Lets just talk about the rear lower control arms. They connect to the trailing arm... the trailing arm moves in an arc as the suspension is compressed and rebounds. (to illiatrate this take a string tied to a pen.. try to move the pen and you draw an arc) When using an ES busing its shape will also cause a bind on the outer edges of the bushing on the suspension mounts. So there is definatley some binding. I know there is really one option for the CRX chassis and that $$$$$MUGEN$$$$ so that sucks (we have ES bushings in our CRX too and I'll be taking them out of the track car I just bought at the end of the summer)

I've been there with a CRX Si both tracking and running in STS2 in years past and its now retired from the track but its now a mildly preped CSP car (I cant bring myself to cut the fenders for the 245-50-15's) And I know what you are talking about as that car with its short wheelbase can be very twitchy. YOu can try left footbraking and keep some pressure in the gas which will also help ballance out your trasisitions. I'm sure you may have already done this but rear camber and front toe will make adifferents. I'm sure these are thing you already know but best of luck.