Hi guys, I would just like to share some ideas/thoughts that I have with B20 VTEC Hybrid setup..

I have been looking to this N/A build for a looong time and would like suggessions and comments, regarding this setup.

I would like the motor to have these core characteristics:

- above 1.8r/s ratio
- 84mm+ bore
- minimum of 12:1 cr
- make peak power at 9300-9500rpm
- make atleast 180whp
- b able to handle 9500rpm safely

With that in mind, I also would like to use a B20 block because of the deck height and would like sleeves to be stock..

My idea:
- Use 77.4mm b16 crank
- Aftermarket (maybe forged) longer rods ???
- Forged high comp Wiseco B20 pistons
- ARP head studs and rod bolts
- B16 VTEC Head

The main thing is that I want to use OEM as far as possible.
I know Im gona have to use forged pistons - or can I use stock? or RS machines?

I did some searching, and found that H22 Rods are the ones that should work - in terms of its length 143mm. That coupled to the 77.4mm crank would yield around 1.84:1 r/s ratio..
The question is can I use stock H22 Rods? are they strong enough for 9500rpm, bearing in mind that the r/s will be +-1.84?

Im not too sure if journal widths etc on b16 crank.. will fit H22 rods?
If so can they be machined to fit?

I also know that there would need to be serious headwork, I was thinking of buddy club spec 4's cams, bigger valves, high rev kit, good head gasflow and maybe even ITB's..

The focus for this build is power and revs

Has anybody tried this?
I searched, with not much success...

Please advise or suggest how I would be able to do this type engine?
Thanks in Advance

 

don't you need to use a longer crank because of the deck height on a b20 and B16 are not the same... i am confused why you would use a b16 crank?

 

Why do you want to rev so high on a B20/VTEC? If 180whp is you goal and reliability is key than just swapping out the pistons and adding any vtec head will be sufficient. And also you want to stay with stock sleeves than there's not much to it!

If you still want to rev high on the stock block than i suggest getting some really good headwork done to the head some S2 pro series cams and all the valve train get the whole bottom end balanced and line honed so you can use a girdle and some ARP bolts and studs all around and get the block posted to keep the cylinders from distortion from the high rpms and heat being produced. And make sure you get some really good engine management and really good tuning!

My current build is a really simple and reliable Daily Driver build hopefully will break 200 whp and won't rev past 8400rpm

B20Z2 Block Honed and decked .010's
Balanced and Micropolished Crank
ACL Race Bearings all around STD size
Stock Rods
ITR Spec Pistons 84mm
ARP Studs and bolts all around
B16A2 Head mild ported
Stock Cams and valvetrain
Ported Intake manifold
RC 550 injectors
S2 Pro Series Cam Gears
68mm Throttle Body
P28 Ecu with Hondata S300

calculating CR around 11.6.1-11.8.1

 

At an 84mm bore your displacement with that stroke would yield 1.7L. If the H22 rods would fit then you might have something.

The problem is, they probably wont due to the rod bore diameter (big end) being larger then the B16 rod bore diameters.So I would venture to guess that the bearings probably wonldn't fit. Otherwise the custom rod might be your only way.

H22 (from OEM/Helms manual)


B16 (from OEM/Helms manual)

 

Here they build engines that rev high on OEM parts no way!
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/

 

Nice build you got..

The thing with what i want to do is build a peaky - sort off, the higher the rev the more power will climb - and mainly just for the sound of a 9300+ VTEC..

I have a fully built - stock geometry B20 VTEC Turbo..
Lots of people have B20's now.

I just want something different, that can rev high - like a 4 wheel superbike..the weight of the car should be around 900kg or even lighter, want to do circuit racing/ track days etc..

It doesnt have to make uber torque, must just rev high - quickly with itr box or something.
Basically a fun car, not in competition or anything.

The over 1.84:1 r/s should be okay with stock sleeves, im guessing : )

 

Hey, thank you very much were did you get those pics from..
Been searching for something like that, yeah i think the disp would b around 1730cc or so..

I could do a "normal" B20 VTEC but I like the power characteristics of the B16, and think of this type of combo would b like a upscaled b16b.

The reason i would want to use a B20 is that its cheaper and more accessible, so based on the S2K and b16b with over high r/s ratio, this B20 with B16 crank, 84mm bore and matched rods would make a FUN N/A motor..

Btw do you where I can search for custom rod and piston - that might work with the B20 block and B16 crank?

Im sure there must b something that will make it work.
Even if I have to deck block, resize rods and/or pistons etc etc, as long as I have more than 1.8:1r/s ratio..

Thank you for your response thus far - btw, anymore suggestions on how to?

 

Thanks for the link, I have seen these and its GREAT info for a B20 VTEC build..

OEM H22 rods "MIGHT" work it terms of strength, bcoz of lower piston speeds of the high r/s ratio even at 9500rpm and bcoz im only going for 180whp, I think the H22 rods should be strong enough, but now dont think bearings etc will work and Im thinking looking for custom length rods..

 

@DC_Legacy

I see now - HELMS Manual : )

 

here, http://www.hondahookup.com/manuals/

They have numerous PDF's of most USDM Honda manuals.

Aftermarket rod manufacturers usually have a custom order form for custom spec rods, but they can be somewhat pricey compared to off the self parts.

 

Combine that build you have planned with some gearing and yes, it will be allot of fun. Who do you plan on doing the headwork? Also, I might look into the Rm M22x camshaft profile. They are very sufficient at carrying power into the upper rpm's, a great drag race cam. And the RM SL valvetrain is damn near bullet proof. M25E's, Pro3's, Jun4's, BC12's or whatever...10k without any problems. Retainers do NOT wear, contrary to what everyone else says about Ti retainers. Check em out, good luck with your build!

 

depending on how much the custom rods if nec. are going to cost, why not sleeve a b16 block,run your b16 crank, and run your pistons that you want, i would consider that, will still make the power with the revs you are looking for,

 

Thanks, will check it out.. btw I have never had such quick response like this, on other forums..

 

Good info there, I think ITR gbox should do..
Do you have any specs of the Rm M22x camshaft profile - duration & lift etc?

Im not actually doing the build, the fastest Honda man in S.A will be doing it..
I work everything out in my head, but unfortunately I have only ever picked up a 10 spanner, in my life : (

 

I thought of that, and maybe it will get me to 9500 and 180whp..
I thought of even going 137mm b18/b20 forged rods and then get a "thinner" piston, which will further incr r/s ratio from the 1.74:1 of the B16 to around 1.77:1 or so..

I like to base alot of the 9000+ rpm on the S2000 and B16B engines..
The S2000 i think, has a 1.82:1 r/s and the B16B has 1.84:1.

Honda had very good reasons for those r/s ratio's and just for 9000rpm and 9200rpm. I want 9500, so it would be natural to want something over/higher 1.82:1 and thats why I choose this geometry or configuration : )

Thanks for your response..

 

I'm probably going to get the M22x's when I start changing my build this summer.

 

I dont get it +84mm bore so sleeves,b20 block so crvtec kit and work,aftermarket pistons,h22 rods,b16 crank soo aloot of machining,money,hunting of parts and headaches for just a 1.7lt ? just soo you can rev it past 9k? why wouldnt you just do some headwork and cams on an gsr or maybe an itr? its probably going to be cheaper,more reliable and efficient not to mention will have more dissplacement?

 

sounds like a fun build..lol i actually always pondered on that idea too. but my idea was b20 bock with a b16 crank and gsr forged rods, with custom pistons. but my issue was the power it would make(prob. not that much) now my question is...if you threw a JRSC on there and used a high lift(all motor cams) would that **** **** up? and if you used FI cams would that yield revs?

 

Bingo!

Why would you want 180whp at 9500 rpm when getting it at 8000 rpm is cake from a 1.8L.
What a waste of money. But maybe you like to do more repairs on your engine.

Friends shouldn't let friends make bad N/A engine decisions.