With NASA, I understand there is not timing AVAILABLE.
but will i be told to take it off if I'm using an Ultralap in my car??

I understand this is not 10/10 ths driving etc. but i need something i can see and touch to help me learn. "Feeling" like I did well on a lap is not going to cut it. This is for reference, not for bragging rights or racing against the clock.

 

No. Laptimers have NO place in DE1 or 2. IMHO, shooting in-car camera so you can learn from it is fine and if you want to pull laptimes from that after the event... no one can stop you. An in-car timer will distract you from what the fundamental techniques your instructor is trying to teach you. Your goal in a beginner or intermediate DE should be to have fun and learn. Speed will come once you learn good technique and can apply it properly and consistently. A good instructor doesn't need a laptimer to teach you good technique.

 

speed is NOT what im looking for.
how am i supposed to gauge consistancy without data?
I need data to learn. I have to understand why something is happening to learn from it.
I also planned on using a camera in addition to the lap timer, then sync them up so i can go back and review specifics in the lap.

so the next question is, are you giving me your opinion that they have no place, or they will in fact make me take it out?

 

Absolute laptimes don't help much anyways. I wouldn't consider laptimes to be 'data'. Sure the laptimes may be the same but you can get them in entirely different ways.

The camera can give you the laptime too, no need for the timer in that sense.

The only reason I use the lap timer in my racecar is during qualifying to see if I hit the lap time I was shooting for. Other than that I never really bother to look at it unless I'm by myself on the front straight and have nothing else to do.

Getting a setup that give you segment times will get you a lot better data. If you really want to go wild the new AIM smartycam when it hits the street will have video and GPS lap mapping all in one with a nice output.

 

correct, but if i get another transceiver i can obtain sector times.
I think splitting a 10 turn track in half could be beneficial.

I guess the more you think about it the camera can do most of the same things by itself.

so, what is a good cam that's compatible with mac's?

 

btw, i think there is a legal issue with timing HPDE laps... something with insurance.. not sure..

 

Bringing this back from the dead a little, but for clarification. Most organizations will make you turn it off/remove it. If they spot a transponder on the wall, chances are they'll confiscate it. The reason for this (beyond the reasons Chris listed, which are completely correct and valid) is that HPDE-specific insurance exists solely because the event is "non-competitive and educational." The way these things are worded, timing = competition.

Their insurance could be either increased significantly or revoked altogether if the wrong person (an insurance agency employee, for example) found out about it. In other words, you'd be putting the entire organization at risk. Without that insurance, they can't afford to host HPDEs, as one lawsuit could end them. Insurance employees have been known to actually walk around the paddock looking for this stuff in years past.

Beyond that, in HPDE2 you almost definitely won't be consistent enough lap to lap to use any kind of hard data. This is ignoring the fact that a laptimer doesn't actually provide data (such as how fast you were going; when exactly you got on the brakes or gas, and how hard you did those; how much off-line were you for a particular corner?). Consider HPDE2 to be the place where you develop the techniques necessary to control the car (with HPDE1 being your introduction to tracking in general).

I've compared my video laps to those of my brother. The only thing we could really deduce was that he was faster in a few places and I was faster in a few places. Why? Short of one glaring difference with each of us taking a very different line, who knows exactly. Maybe I get on the gas later, maybe he brakes less. The only thing it lets me know is that I'm slower than him, and can generally push the car more. In HPDE1/2, where you don't completely have control of the car or yourself, that spells bad news.

 

if you need data just ask an instructor to ride with you and get his input. most of the instructors i knew and had during HPDE had no problem going of a ride and i use different instructor each time

 

i've used a laptimer in hpde 1/2. no big deal. no one cared. it was more humbling than anything.

you guys are making assumptions on the insurance issue. i dont see how taking lap times is any different than a stopwatch. its "educational". a "timed event" would be more like a time trial competition where times are actually compared.

 

I'm going off what I was told by the higher-ups at NASA and PCA. FWIW, stopwatches or anything similar are also not allowed, in the car or trackside.

It comes down to legal jargon and the specific words used. "Timing" is the way they distinguish competition from education.

 

theres nothing in the CCR about limit of timers, stopwatches, in car or out.

 

Not sure why in EVERY NASA and PCA event I've been at they tout that then...

I personally have no beef one way or the other, beyond some students that I've personally had/seen who got wrapped up in "getting a better time" mentality and pushing the limit beyond their talent.

 

ive never heard it outside of just interwebz advice.

must be another one of those local culture things. like cant use snell M helmets at an HPDE event. perfectly legal and fine.

 

You're in Cali, right? Might be an East vs. West thing.

 

From Texas, and Ive never heard of the timing (trackside beacons/in-car, stopwatches, or otherwise) being prohbited at any organization I have run HPDEs with.

 

actually, come to think of it, the only "rule" that i've heard of is that the rental transponders are not available to HPDE1/2 participants, nor are the official time sheets posted even if you were in a car with a transponder thats all.

but thats not what we've been talking about anyway.