One more "worth it?" thread... sorry. My question is, I've got a super clean 94 GSR right now, with about 150,000 miles. The engine runs pretty good, doesn't burn any oil which is nice. It's pretty old so it's definitely not as peppy as my last EM1 was with similar miles. My plan for the car is to turn it into a track/street car. I haven't invested much money into the engine since I got it when it was stock, only a Spoon drop-in filter & JDM ITR exhaust. I ordered a set of ground controls (400F, 300R) and found some used koni yellows. So I don't have much money in the car so far.

I really want to take this car to a track, but seeing the age of the engine and the mileage, and the neccessity to have it as my DD to get to work, I was planning on swapping in a newer JDM ITR b18c motor. I just don't like how it's about $3500-4000 for the swap for only ~30hp more than the GSR w/LSD tranny. I've never driven a type-r, so I'd like to know if you guys who have, or who have the swap, think it's worth the money? Should I drop that much on the swap, or go all out and go for a K20a2 swap (~$7K)? Anybody driven a GSR, type R, and possibly a k20a2 swapped DC2 and have any opinions? The car must be able to be used as a daily driver unless I decide to pick up a second car. I'm still trying to figure out where/if to draw the line and just dump the money I'd put into my GSR into something newer like an AP1, or something like a Evo/Sti... but would take much more time to save for. I'm pretty loyal to honda so I don't even know if I'd go that route.

I'd love to just buy a type r, but i live in SF and it's just not feasible to park one here, plus they're still like $13k for one with 100K+ miles. My GSR cost $3800 and is in great shape all aound. I acutally never used to like the look 94-97 DC2's back when I had my EM1, but I'm starting to fall for it It's just a great solid car!

Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

P.S. This car needs to remain NA. Sorry boost

 

I wouldn't spend the money for a JDM type r swap. The money you spend on that could go to improving what you already have. If it were me, I would either build an lsvtec, swap a K24, or slight rebuild + boost.

 

they are faster than a GSR by quite a good deal. you can watch youtube and see the sir-g vs the type r in a drag. as far as if it's worth the cash? sort of. if you can sell your GSR swap complete for at least $1500 it becomes more so. if you don't then boosting is really the only way to make drag racing kind of power. the thing is, you sound more autocross oriented. if that's the case the R motor with the lsd and shorter gearing is right down your alley and far more reliable than the b20 or ls-vtecs that make since if a guy has an LS but are pointless+ in your situation. the K series is also a few thousand more and a harder conversion. the ITR is a bolt in. i'd spend as little as possible to get what you want. these cars are fun and all but not something you want to throw a ton of cash at when you consider that an rsx, evo, 350z or c6 vette could be had for 12-28k. i talked to one poor kid at the track the other night who had 6 grand in a b20 setup. ran 14.7@95mph in a DA chassis. he still lost to my stock ITR engine which ran similar ET's due to my 17" wheels and stiff *** sidewalls but the real deal with the 96.8mph i kept clicking in a heavier DC chassis. mph = hp. my vote is to do the swap and sell your gsr stuff if you're autocrossing, boost it if you drag race or save your money and buy a better car if you really want an upgrade.

 

Sorry, I should've said I no boost on this car. I've been there done that with my first EM1. It's great (I love turbo's) but I can't rely on it to get me to work everyday, plus FWD turbo auto-x/track is not that fun either (tried that too). I'm strictly looking for NA here.

idrivesideways: I'll check out you-tube and see what you're talking about. I wish I could test drive all these!. the K-series swap seems like a beast (the k20z3 in my fg2 was pretty fun), but the install looks like a pain with all the wiring. I'd love to hang with sti's and evo's though. But I could potentially pass smog with the b18c if needed Take me for a ride in your car!

Thanks again.

 

sorry but i don't think it's worth it! like what our mates were saying,you could spend the money you have to improve what you have now..

 

if you were closer i would. the itr will pass smog in most states but cali has weird rules and the b18c is iffy from what i gather. the cali guys will be much more helpful with whats legal and what isn't. as a rule, the more stock it is, the easier it will pass.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RQhE...eature=related

the link

 

I think I may be able to help you out here.

I haven't driven an ITR swapped GSR, but I have driven an ITR and a GSR, and an ITR swapped EG.

Since you are looking to roadrace/autoX, then no, it's not worth it and here's why. The ITR is superior to the GSR not just because of the engine, but mostly because of the chassis/suspension. The ITR makes more peak tourque/power, but the GSR makes it's torque lower in the rev range which is good for what you are looking to do. I know more than one person running an ITR block with a GSR head (ITR valvetrain) just so they can run the OEM IM and produce torque earlier.

I too have a 94 GSR (with almost 200K), but I have ITR suspension and bracing. That, along with good tires made the biggest difference. Also, it doesn't take much to get the B18C1 to make power like an ITR, much less than $4K. I would invest your money in suspension, tires, and trackday costs. By trackday costs, I mean radiator upgrade, oil cooler, gauges, spare wheels/tires, alignment, helmet&shoes, and maybe a truck/trailer rental because you said it's also your daily. I think you'd be dissapointed to spend all that money on a motor, then find out how much it actually costs to track the car, especially if you break something.

And if you still really want a ITR under the hood. Buy a red valve cover and Skunk2 IM.

 

Should put some internal work in the gsr and it would be faster then a type r,but if you want to keep it stock then the c5 is the way to go.

 

the cali rules

JDM MOTORS CAN BE LEGAL AS LONG AS:
1. The engine is the same year as car or newer.
2. The ECU is a USDM and not JDM.
3. NO JDM wiring harness, it must be USDM.
4. The intake must be the original USDM air box, OR an intake that has a C.A.R.B sticker that is STRICTLY for the swapped motor. (Example: an AEM CAI for a GSR with a GSR motor will PASS, a AEM CAI for a Type R with a GSR motor will NOT pass)
5. The exhaust manifold MUST BE USDM, and if it is not O.E. then it must have a C.A.R.B sticker that matches the motor. I asked the ref. if they could really tell the difference between a stock USDM and JDM exhaust manifold, and he said that they have pictures for everything, and there are slight differences.
6. No adjustable FPR's, not unless it has a C.A.R.B. sticker.
7. Must have a catalytic converter hooked up (this one is pretty obvious).
8. All USDM O.E. smog equipment MUST be hooked up and working properly!

 

Definitely some good insite, and thanks for the JDM passing smog info. Luckily I register my car at my parent's address, in Mariposa, CA, and there is currently no smog. But they're trying to change that so smog may be a future concern... as well as getting pulled over by police in SF which is definitely happens at random. I'm at work and they blocked you-tube...

I'd definitely hate throwing a bunch of money in my GSR (suspension, ITR swap), and still be dissapointed and regret doing it rather than just buying a better car. Maybe i'll just do the type-r swap, sell the GSR swap, and call it a day for the GSR. At that point I'd have about $8-9K in the car with pretty low mileage. Thats about the same price as my last used civic si, not too bad. Then on the other side thats $3-4K less than a s2000 or a k20a2 swap (I keep hearing once you go K you never go back). I need a new clutch soon (~3-6 months left max) so I plan on going forward with my decision at that time

Thanks guys!

 

I'd do internal work, and I'd be all for it if I had a spare car in case something goes wrong. Honda does such a great job on their motors, I don't like opening them up unless I have to. c5 would be great if I could find a low mileage one at a decent price. If I found a high-mileage one, then I'd go forward and do internal work before dropping it in

Thanks!

 

jdm engines corp has a complete 97 ITR engine trans ecu change over for $3500 shipped

 

You're killing me with temptation! Where did you find that? I don't see it on their website? Tax goes up here in Cali 1% April 1st, so maybe I should do it prior to that... though I guess that wouldn't apply if I bought the engine from texas (I think thats where JDM engines corp is).

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Integ...Q5fAccessories


that's the link

seriously, this stuff is all about dollars and how few hours you can put into the change. sure K's are great but they are a lot more time and money. same with built motors which REALLY eat up cash and sometimes don't live nearly as long as a stock ITR.

me, i'm saving for a C6.

you can get a 2005 with like 10k miles for 25-28k these days, i like starting at 400hp

i still believe the 94-01 tegs are a great 5000 car, actually, my favorite 5000 car. when you start tossing tons of cash at these you realize that the options go up in what you can buy. an rsx-s is fun, 350z is great. newer vettes, try beating one of those bang for the buck on the race track. plus, all 3 look cool. would any of you guys not love driving any of those 3 for a day?

as far as your car. i think spending 2k extra on that swap is a great idea mainly because you get
A: an increase in performance
B: lower mile better condition drivetrain
C: emission passing
D: increased resale

anyone who tries telling you the ITR swap won't increase the value is dreaming. ask yourself which you would have rather bought. a 150k GSR or a swapped GSR with the paperwork. this is another reason the ITR swap has perks over cash bucket built motors. when you sell, the other party knows what they are buying and the quality honda produces from the factory. with a built car. you better be selling to someone local who knows just what they are buying. built cars are much harder to sell. trust me, i've sold two of them. judging by your sig you also have built a few cars. you know what i mean by eating cash. with this, it's plug and play. one cost, no tuning and you just turn the key and drive it.

 

Wow, you pretty much said it all right there. I don't think I could've summed it up any better. I'd love to just finance a new Evo X, but I also want to start saving for a house (in SF a freekin 1bd condo is like $350K). My gut is telling me just do the ITR swap, like you've said, have fun with my DC2, and save for a home and/or better car in the near future.

I totally know what you mean about opening up a motor - it truely is a money pit. Once you open it up its like.. hmmm sleeving the block while it's open is a good idea, etc. I too like the reliability that Honda has from the factory, thats why I for sure want to do a factory swap. I think I'm going to go with the ITR swap

Thanks man. You're a great help. I'm sure you'll enjoy the C6 just as any of us would too. I myself would go with a 350z of the ones you've listed. I has a 2002 rsx-s before and it wasn't as sweet as I thought it was. I like the DC2 better to be honest. A VQ35HR nissan 350z would do me nice. I'd still love to have a sk2 too. Priorities....hmm priorities...

 

to bad you live so far away

i'd pick up your old GSR swap lol

 

OD truck freight is roughly $200 shipping to send a swap from oregon to texas. a kid down there has my old motor & that was the quote

 

This is tight. I already have somone who wants my b18c1 and a negotiator

 

i want a B18c1 and milage isn't a problem for me....

its just everyone wants an arm and a leg..

yours is just so far away...if you were in the midwest and the price was right i'd pick it up

 

hum, might be buying the type-r and selling my gsr b18c jdm

 

This swap your doing is a little different that the one i just did, but mine was deff. worth the money. I've drove k20's but in si's/rsx-s and they're smooth and ok, but the type r to me is so much better feeling. It pulls as if your drivin a race car, but as soon as you get back in the k20 its like uggghh. it might be a little quicker in different cars than the type r but, it has no-where to as close the feeling the type r puts out.

you got a dc2. . . i have an ej8. . .

(its a little different, but in my case it was worth it, d-series or type r? hmm.. )

not much of a decision to make but for the $3500 i paid for my 96+ jdm type r you can't beat it!

TYPE R FTW

 

if your looking for B18C, you try the local area? N1 sells it pretty cheap or HMO

 

I know what you mean about the k20's. I've driven the 06+ Si's and rsx-s's and didn't think they were all that people claim them to be. However, I've never driven one in a EG, EK, or DC2 platform - now that I hear is a pretty mean combination. The torque of the k20 is pretty nice though.

I do love the sound/look of the b-series motors. They're awesome. I just wish they responded to mods like the k-series do. I'll be going with the jdm itr swap in my teg. Thanks for your input, it definetly helps justify my plan in my head


I think I'm going to roll down to N1 Concepts on Saturday and check them out. I saw they have 10% off everything on their website which would bring the price down to a bit lower than jdm engines corp (excpet jdm engines corp has free shipping). I wish they didn't move to across the bay though...

 

going local for your swap would be a bonus if they can do similar prices. the days of paying $5000 for an ITR swap are long gone. which of course is why they are now fun to do