*update 2/12/2010*
Installed this nice little MPG gauge courtesy of Ecomodder.com

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/MPGuino

to give me instantaneous results. It measures instant mpgs, trip mpg, and tank mpg. For the sake of this test, I will use the trip mpg reading on each direction, then reset.

To measure ambient temperature, i used this tool:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93983

To keep driving style consistent, i used a vacuum gauge to show how hard the engine is working. For the sake of this test, i accelerated using 15in and shifted gears at 3500rpm until i reached 50mph, then set the cruise control.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98482

Location: found an empty 1.5mile long stretch of backroad highway so there was no traffic interference. The first direction was a slight uphill grade (lower number), the returning direction was mostly a downhill coast (higher number). And then i took the average of the two.

Here are the results:
Time of day 12:30pm - 1:30 pm
Ambient Temperature 75*F
A = all stock
B = Electrolyzer only
A = all stock

A1 - 22.56mpg - 55.94mpg = 39.25 (avg)
A2 - 22.46mpg - 54.45mpg = 38.45 (avg)
A3 - 21.78mpg - 54.83mpg = 38.30 (avg)

B1 - 22.64mpg - 55.55mpg = 39.09 (avg)
B2 - 21.88mpg - 55.20mpg = 38.54 (avg)
B3 - 22.06mpg - 54.35mpg = 38.20 (avg)

A4 - 21.74mpg - 53.30mpg = 37.52 (avg)

A averages = 38.38mpg
B averages = 38.61mpg

0.6% increase = NOT WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT!

PS: will do one more test with the O2 mod.



*update 3/4/2009*
1st tank: 313.6 Miles on 10.0 gallons = 31.3 mpg. (Mostly highway) Ambient temperature 54*

*update 3/7/2009 Page 2 posts 45 and 46*
Took some pictures of my throttle body. Of course it's dirty now because I haven't cleaned it in 3 years. Gave it a cleaning today, so I can start fresh for this product test. Also took pictures of each of the spark plugs today. (You can't post pictures where you want in the thread? they can only be posted in the end?)

*Update 3/9/2009 (Page 2 Post 47)*
2nd Tank. 330.9 miles on 10.14gallons = 32.63MPG (Mostly highway). Ambient Temperature 57*.

*Update 3/16/09*
3rd tank. 309.3Miles on 9.79 gallons = 31.5 MPG. (Mostly highway with some city driving.) Ambient temperature 56*
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Before I begin, here is my setup:
-1993 Del Sol Si
-1994 JDM GSR engine swap
-Comptech icebox intake,
Comptech 4-2-1 header, Kteller High Flow Cat., custom 2.25" exhaust to a Comptech Muffler.

I tried it and it works... SO FAR.

I didn't bother wasting my money on purchasing the e-book (water4gas.com), i just bitorrentedededed it and someone had it online. Saved myself $97 right there.

I provided the "online manual" for you all to download if you want to read up more on this product or if you would like to take a crack at it yourself:

http://files.filefront.com/13390193

But i did purchase a DIY kit ($60 shipped) where they send you all the parts necessary and you put it together yourself.

www.HHO-unlimited.com.
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*EDIT*
Here are the details on my particular system. If you dled the manual, please refer to pages 82-92 for the chapter labeled "Installing and Using the Charged Water System." According to the author, this system is a modified version of the conventional HHO generator system and the author believes that it is so unique that he considers it a separate system.

What the charged water system is is you have the HHO generator (or "Electrolyzer) outside of the car (in your kitchen or your garage). You hook up the HHO generator to a separate container (filled with regular stinking tap water), called the "Vaporizer." You use the Electrolyzer to produce Hydrogen, then you pump that hydrogen into the tap water for about an hour. My friend (a chemistry PhD at UC San Diego) calls this "hydrogenating" the water. Once you are finished "charging" the water, the author says to add 4 capfuls of 3% hydrogen peroxide to the water. Then you hook up the Vaporizer to a line leading into the intake manifold. The "vapors" from the hydrogenated water is supposed to work much in the same way as the Electrolyzer.

*The reason why I chose this system over the conventional system is because, like many of you, I had my doubts about the HHO technology. However, this particular system is simply an "add-on." There is are no wires i need to splice and there is no danger of hydrogen leaking into my engine bay and exploding. If the author is totally convinced that this system works so well, and it ends up not working, then i can just remove the vaporizer without having to re-splice anything back together. If it does end up working, then I will install the Electrolyzer into my car.
*END EDIT*
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Tonight after work, I installed the system, went to the gas station. Filled up with 6.1 gallons on 177.4 miles = 29.08mpg (mostly highway). Then drove up and down Santiago Canyon road (no traffic) in Orange County, CA. Filled up again. Here are my first results.
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*EDIT*
Yes, the first results are skewed so I decided to take them down. Like everybody mentioned on here, there were too many variables that could've attributed to the high mpg readings.

From now on, I will conduct the product test as follows (to try to get more control and, thus, more accurate numbers). As mentioned below, I am a delivery driver, so most of my driving is on the highway. I intend on keeping consistent and conservative driving habits. For example, sticking to the speed limit of 65mph, no aggressive throttle work, coasting to stop signs to try to conserve momentum, starting off slow, etc. Hopefully, this should be able to give me a good "highway mpg" rating for this product. I will drive like this for 3-4 tankfuls to see if the MPG improvement is consistent over time (or to see if its a one-time fluke). Then, I will un-install the system and run 3-4 tanks to see if there has indeed been any improvements in MPG (that cannot otherwise be attributed to my changed driving habits).

That will be the first part of this product test. For the second part, I will re-install the system and change my driving habits to an "aggressive" style (you all know what this means) to try to get a good "city MPG" rating. Again, I will do this for 3-4 tankfuls, then un-install the system and run 3-4 more tankfuls.

Throughout this experiment, I will also fill up gas at the SAME gas station and at the SAME pump, again for control purposes. When I fill up the gas, I will insert the gas pump, and pull back a little bit until it "stops," then I will then fill up until the gas pumps "clicks" and remove the nozzle, again, to keep my pumping habits consistent.

I will try to fill up at roughly the same time of day to keep the ambient temperature consistent. If not, I will use the weather feature on my Iphone to and fill up at roughly the same ambient temperature.

Many members are concerned that the system makes the car run dangerously "lean." I will provide pictures of my spark plugs at different intervals throughout this experiment for you to judge.

One member claimed he has seen cars with this setup where their throttle bodies build up gunk and corrode over time. Again, I will regularly check my throttle body throughout this experiment and provide pictures for you to judge.
*END EDIT*
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*Update 3/1/2009*
I uploaded the $97 ebook onto my filefront account, if anybody else wants to take a crack at this. Just think of it as us "stealing" from these scammers.

http://files.filefront.com/13390193

 

What exactly is this? Looks interesting, can you explain the concept?

 

I hate to be "THAT GUY" but it seems i have to be every now and again. If you compare your mileage over a half tank of gas to a trip of only 1.3 gallons, that's not really a statistically valid comparison. The sample size, especially in the second trip, is far too small. You could potentially be attributing a good amount of the "increase" to errors in filling. Run 2 tanks of gas without the HHO dealie and 2 tanks of gas with it. Try to keep the driving styles the same in both instances. Also, controlling ambient temperature is a big factor. If the temp varies 10-20 degrees, those results are not very accurate. Get a larger sample size (gallons) and report back.

I hate to sound cynical, but we can't have people spreading false results, now can we?

 

No worries, i know its just my first test. I plan on keeping track of my results over time. Preliminary results are very promising though.

Hence in the beginning of my post i said "it works.... so far"

 

k he said this far so im pretty sure that he will post further results as soon as he can

 

I'm sure he will post further results. I just want to make sure that he's doing in a way so that he can show the actual results. I'm all for things that aid gas mileage...i've also taken enough Statistical Research Methods classes to become **** about improper results

 

hhahahah he posted that when i was posting so sorry lol

 

Me and a teacher from school put a HHO kit on a Chevy 350 on an engine dyno and saw about a 24% increase in fuel used and a 5-8% increase in power.

 

I'm up for a challenge, work has been slow lately.

What would be the "basics" you would need to be required "proper" results?

BTW, even my girlfriend said my car sounded "quieter, more hum-my....less growl-y" today for some reason. I haven't even told her what I did to my car yet. But that's just purely subjective, so you all can disregard this.

I'll post up my next results after this gas tank. Then another gas tank with the HHO installed. Then 2 more gas tanks with the HHO un-installed to see if the difference is still there.

 

The really good ones do EXTREMELY well. The hydrogen ups the octane naturally, proven increase in gas mileage and horsepower.

These kits are very very good for the price if your results come out the same as before.

 

I'm in for results as well. Someone else started a thread like this and didn't follow through.
Until then, I'm under the impression that "HHO is a scam for people who failed science", but ready for results.

 

I'd love to see more info. I bought a kit online called the HAFC but haven't installed it because I want to get my BAR Certificate first. I'll be installing mine in a couple of months and will also be reporting here as well.

Keep us informed!

 

Hmmmmm....

IFL

 

An interesting read I found by googling "hydrogen air fuel mixture studies". Its from the Department of Renewable Energy regarding Hydrogen use in combustion engines. It explains pure hydrogen engines, hydrogen mixed with gasoline, and pro's and con's of hydrogen.

For all of you non-believers.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf

 

Yep...you need to just test it over a larger sample. A few tanks of gas with and a few without will give you a pretty good idea of the increase. Just try to keep your driving style the same. In for results

 

Higher octane does not equate to increased mileage and horsepower. A higher octane fuel means it has a higher detonation temperature so you can retard the timing and get more air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber. If anything, increasing the octane charge without a corresponding engine change should decrease your mileage.

As for water injection, it was/is used to cool the fuel so you can run a denser (higher volume) charge in the combustion chamber and not because the hydrogen and oxygen breakdown to add to the mix. The temperature at which water (h20) separates into its molecular components is much higher than that at which most engines operate.

 

Yes, hydrogen engines do exist, and have for quite some time!

"Hydrogen can be used in conjunction with compact liquid fuels such as gasoline, alcohol or diesel provided each are stored separately. In these applications, the fuel tanks can be formed to fit into unused spaces on the vehicle. Existing vehicles of this type tend to operate using one fuel or the other but not both at the same time."

This is the only part of that 29 page article that relates in any way to what is being discussed here. Is this supposed to convince "non-believers"?

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, "Water4Gas" is a scam for those who dropped out of grade 9 science. It has been proven time and again, both theoretically and experimentally, that Water4Gas is nothing but a big bag of fail. What's next? Going to buy the "anti-gravity space shoes" so you won't even need a car, you can just defy gravity!

Do you really think that some "mickey-mouse" science fair project can boost your mileage by 35% and everyone, including car manufacturers, is oblivious to it?

Sorry but I've seen this come up too many times -- it is the equivalent of "I just learned how to fly and now I'm going to turn some lead into gold."

Ridiculous.

Feel free to do some reading on the subject.
http://www.savedpennies.com/?p=116

 

This is an interesting idea, but I'm still wondeirng if I should try in on my Fit..

 

I would love to see somebody strap one of these to an engine dyno in a controlled environment. Kinda like you see on the HP TV show. Controlled ambient air, controlled load, controlled everything, and run an engine with and without the system hooked up. I think that'll be the best way to see if these $100 ebay kits actually do work.

 

There is no need. It doesn't work. This is fact.
/thread.

 

Says who? You?

 

Says Newton?

You can't get something from nothing.

More energy is being put into the system than is coming out.

Try reading my earlier link, or just search "HHO Water4Gas scam", the results are numerous.

 

I hope you all noticed that I didnt actually purchase the $97 e-book. I found it on a bittorrent website. So if it makes you all feel any better, just think of it as me "stealing" from these scammers. Heck let's all steal from these scammers!

http://files.filefront.com/13390193

I uploaded this manual onto my filefront account. No, its not one of those "pay per link" deals. I just figured, if anybody else wants to try this out, I will save you the expense of buying the ebook.

 

*update 3/4/2009

1st tank: 313.6 Miles on 10.0 gallons = 31.3 mpg. (Mostly highway)

Not as high as I anticipated earlier, but still an improvement. Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/acura/integra/1996/index.html) lists the GSR as having 25mpg. I average about 25-27mpg without the HHO.

Stay tuned for more results!

 

Thanks for keeping us updated Jedi Sol. Don't let the detractors that HAVEN'T TRIED THIS FOR THEMSELVES get you down. Looking forward to more info as you drive.