a friend of mine has a 2007 Mini Cooper S, and I was wondering who do you guys think would have better road holding?

My car, Acura 1.6EL, (aka Civic Sedan)
with OMNI Power full coilovers, 16x7 wheels wrapped in 205/45/16 rubber, LCAs, and a Beaks subframe kit with a 22mm ITR swaybar.

his car is stock

 

most likely his.
those mini coopers will get up and go.
:/

 

Power output is similar for sohc and dohc vtec to normally aspirated and supercharged mini. I'd say a civic with new bushings and a double wishbone suspension outhandles a vehicle with macpherson struts.

 

I say the mini with out a doubt ill go for the mini ,

 

I think it would really come down to who is the better driver.

 

I had a Cooper S and that that was pretty quick , well after the pulley and exhaust
so i would go with MINI on that...

 

if your civic was a hatch and not a sedan then you would have had a chance....the mini will out corner you for sure.

 

Followed by who has the stickier tires.

If the same person has both, the car won't even factor in for this case.

 

all comes down to who has more expierence and who has more control of their car. but the mini has a better chance.

 

No offense but I think the MINI will tear you a new one. Like they said if you had a hatch you might get him but I think he'll get you bad.. Definitely race him though, just don't put money on it lol

 

Civic and del sol have better weight distribution than the mini. If both had f/r antisway bars or only a rear antisway bar, the honda will take the mini. Double wishbone suspension provides for a wider footprint at its limits. Installation of macphearson struts in later models was for space consideration and final costs.

 

haha none taken, its not like I've been **** talking or anything like that. tho the difference between a hatch and a sedan are pretty minor in terms of weight, but the sedan does have a structural advantage to the hatch

the mini is stock, so I'm not sure if they came with sway bars etc? Also what is the suspension geometry for mini's?

 

The front axle of the MINI is based on the McPherson suspension strut principle, which offers weight and packaging advantages compared with other chassis systems.
In the MINI, this system has been improved through the addition of a drive shaft bearing, screwed to the engine block, that allows the front axle shafts to be of equal length. This design is normally associated with front-drive vehicles in much higher classes; it provides symmetrical feedback during cornering, accelerating and braking. Normally, small cars have drive shafts of different lengths so that the feedback effect on the side with the shorter drive shaft is greater, which creates a feeling of instability when driving.
The MINI's multi-link rear suspension is unique in this segment. Its geometry is designed in such a way that the wheels always adjust to the best possible angle in relation to the road. The tires are therefore always in full contact with the tarmac. Changes in the camber of the road have no effect on steering or the car's traction. The multi-link suspension allows good use of space and creates a luggage compartment with a low wide floor between the shock absorbers. These are important characteristics in view of the position of the axle, which is close to the MINI's tail.
Both MINI One and MINI Cooper have an anti-roll bar on the front axle, reinforced on MINI Cooper. In addition, MINI Cooper has an additional anti-roll bar on the rear axle, a sporty chassis and Sports suspension. It is also lower by 8 mm. MINI Cooper can also be specified with a Sport Plus suspension system for the real enthusiast.
Both MINI's are fitted with electro-hydraulic power-assisted steering (EHPAS), which is both accurate and direct, giving the pin-point steering sensation and excellent agility so typical of the classic Mini. The steering wheel only needs to be turned 2.5 times lock to lock. The EHPAS system works on the principle of rack and pinion steering. Whilst conventional steering systems use hydraulic pumps that are continuously driven by the engine, the steering pump in the MINI is operated by a small electric motor that works independently of the car's engine.
Since the power steering is not in use all the time, the engine can switch back into a more economical standby mode if no assistance is required for steering, producing a small cut in fuel consumption.

 

In automobiles, a double wishbone (or "upper and lower A-arm") suspension is an independent suspension design using two (occasionally parallel) wishbone-shaped arms to locate the wheel. Each wishbone or arm has two mounting points to the chassis and one joint at the knuckle. The shock absorber and coil spring mount to the wishbones to control vertical movement. Double wishbone designs allow the engineer to carefully control the motion of the wheel throughout suspension travel, controlling such parameters as camber angle, caster angle, toe pattern, roll center height, scrub radius, scuff and more.

Double Wishbone Suspension


The double wishbone suspension can also be referred to as double 'A' arms, and short long arm (SLA) suspension if the upper and lower arms are of unequal length.
SLAs are very common on front suspensions for medium to large cars such as the Honda Accord, Volkswagen Passat, Chrysler 300, or Mazda 6/Atenza, pickups, SUVs, and are very common on sports cars and racing cars.
A single wishbone or A-arm can also be used in various other suspension types, such as MacPherson strut and Chapman strut.
The suspension consists of a pair of upper and lower lateral arms. The upper arm is usually shorter to induce negative camber as the suspension jounces (rises). When the vehicle is in a turn, body roll results in positive camber gain on the outside wheel. The outside wheel also jounces and gains negative camber due to the shorter upper arm. The suspension designer attempts to balance these two effects to cancel out and keep the tire perpendicular to the ground. This is especially important for the outer tire because of the weight transfer to this tire during a turn.
Between the outboard end of the arms is a knuckle with a spindle (the kingpin), hub, or upright which carries the wheel bearing and wheel. Knuckles with an integral spindle usually do not allow the wheel to be driven. A bolt on hub design is commonly used if the wheel is to be driven.
In order to resist fore-aft loads such as acceleration and braking, the arms need two bushings or ball joints at the body.
At the knuckle end, single ball joints are typically used, in which case the steering loads have to be taken via a steering arm, and the wishbones look A- or L-shaped. An L-shaped arm is generally preferred on passenger vehicles because it allows a better compromise of handling and comfort to be tuned in. The bushing in line with the wheel can be kept relatively stiff to effectively handle cornering loads while the off-line joint can be softer to allow the wheel to recess under fore aft impact loads. For a rear suspension, a pair of joints can be used at both ends of the arm, making them more H-shaped in plan view. Alternatively, a fixed-length driveshaft can perform the function of a wishbone as long as the shape of the other wishbone provides control of the upright. This arrangement has been successfully used in the Jaguar IRS.
In elevation view, the suspension is a 4-bar link, and it is easy to work out the camber gain (see camber angle) and other parameters for a given set of bushing or ball joint locations.
The various bushings or ball joints do not have to be on horizontal axes, parallel to the vehicle centre line. If they are set at an angle, then antidive and antisquat can be dialed in.
The advantage of a double wishbone suspension is that it is fairly easy to work out the effect of moving each joint, so you can tune the kinematics of the suspension easily and optimize wheel motion. It is also easy to work out the loads that different parts will be subjected to which allows more optimized lightweight parts to be designed. They also provide increasing negative camber gain all the way to full jounce travel unlike the MacPherson strut which provides negative camber gain only at the beginning of jounce travel and then reverses into positive camber gain at high jounce amounts.
The disadvantage is that it is slightly more complex than other systems like a MacPherson strut.
Prior to the dominance of front wheel drive in the 1980s, many everyday cars used double wishbone front suspension systems, or a variation on it. Since that time, the MacPherson strut has become almost ubiquitous, as it is simpler and cheaper to manufacture. In most cases, a MacPherson strut requires less space to engineer into a chassis design, and in front wheel drive layouts, can allow for more room in the engine bay. A good example of this is observed in the Honda Civic, which changed its front suspension design from a double wishbone design, to a MacPherson strut design after the year 2000 model. The change was made to lower costs, as well as allow more engine bay room for the newly introduced Honda K-series engine.
Double wishbones are usually considered to have superior dynamic characteristics, load handling capability and are still found on higher performance vehicles. Examples of makes in which double wishbones can be found include Audi, Acura, and BMW

 

Yes it does sir, a sedan maybe a bit heavier but it def. has a structural advantage over a hatch.

OP, i'd run 15inch rims, the extra weight and size from the 16inch rims weighing the car down. All tracked 96-00 civic's should run 15inch rims IMO.

 

Mini hands down, just because your car has a double wishbone suspension does not mean it can handle. Most 60's pony cars had double wish bones and they were pigs. On the other hand cars like bmw m3's, 911's and most of the audies under 50 grand have mcpherson struts suspensions and they are known for their road holding.

 

All suspension factors being equal, the honda will outhandle the mini. Sorry to bust your bubble. It a merely mechanical engineering. Minis are cute, but hondas were formerly designed based on F1 technology.

 

too bad all suspension factors are not equal though, and these are totally different cars. I've driven plenty of minis at the track, and they are one of the best handling front wheel drive cars out there right now (stock vs stock).

since the OP has coilovers, bigger tires, and a rear sway, he has a chance. but bench racing is for losers, there is only one way to find out!

 

Give a comparable honda dohc vtec 94-97 with similar spring rate and antisway bars and new bushings, I'd take the honda hands even though the gearing for the mini produces higher top speed..........power output is similar. Actually, the honda just needs a rear sway bar for rotation. Better driver is the one not using electronic stability control.

 

sorry, the mini is tuned out of the box, the op has some junk china coilovers with any fancy alinment/bushing replacement....mini wins imo.

 

Uh, Omni power is made in the USA