Hey all....I am new to FI and am asking for some advice from people who have experienced issues with a JDM B16 turbo setup. I am about to go elbows deep in this setup and just double checking to make sure I am covering all aspects. I am a moderately experienced street tuner so I am looking for those tuner "gods" to be my double check on my first turbo setup.

Engine- JDM B16A SIRII stock block
Custom turbo VTEC Cams
Skunk 2 IM
Port match OEM TB
RC 750cc injectors
Walbro 255lph f/p
AEM fuel rail
AEM fpr

Electronics- Apexi AVCR boost controller
AEM wideband A/F controller
Apexi SAFC controller
AEM methane/water injection kit

Turbo kit- Greddy T3/T4 60 trim
Custom hand welded 3in downpipe and manifold
tial wastegate and BOV

I am not posting this to brag or anything like that I am just asking if anyone with similar setups sees any possible flaws. I have researched and am pretty sure I am not missing anything but just to double check.. Thanks

 

forgot also a cometic head gasket

 

Pretty much ditch everything but the fuel pump, wastegate and blow off valve. Those injectors arn't too bad I guess too. I have never had problems with them the few times I have used RCs but I think others may have.

I don't know what your goals are but you don't need or want half that **** to make 300-330 whp, which is reasonable for a stock b16.

And you forgot charge pipes and a clutch.

 

First, it is best to offer particular goals when you're displaying a setup, be it stock engine or otherwise. that will help w/ other issues or questions that you may have later.

I find that you have a few unnecessary or inefficient items in your setup.

S-AFC/V-AFC - This is not a DSM, so don't treat it as such. for a turbocharger setup in this day and age, I truly recommend other managment systems that have support from dyno tuners and distributors/retailers, in case something goes wrong, you can have continual support for your future build. The V-AFC is extremely limited and will not tune the type of setup that you have effectively on pump gas, much less meth/water injection (I'll get to that in a second). Using Engine management systems that utilize your ECU are much more readily available and reliable. You can check the FAQs for the differences b/w the applications, but the ones that come to mind are Hondata (S300 preferrable), EcTune, Neptune, or chipped sets (depending upon power needs) from Xenocron, Or Pherable.net (sp?). These applications will give much more desireable results than any AFC, and when properly tuned, will eliminate the need for the meth/water.

Speaking of meth/water, the only reason why these are even used, mainly in Dodge, and DSM applications is because the user is attempting to keep detonation from occurring on an engine setup that has already maximized the turbocharger that they've used that is WELL outside their efficiency range. It's relatively inexpensive, but its because the the user is being cheap by not purchasing a more efficient turbocharger setup, that is just blowing HOT AIR into the combustion chamber, because it is out of its usable efficiency range. On hondas, the VTEC head design, turbocharger that you chose (60 trim) and block does more than enough by itself to reach the limits that the stock engine can take without the need of this added hardware, that's just going to take up room in the engine bay. If you want to "add boost later", you'll need to change the internals of the block before you even think about needing the use of meth/water. Not necessary, sell it, and use it get better fuel managment. Keep it simple (K.I.S.S.). Don't compare yourself to a DSM or Subaru: just because you're trying to turbocharge doesn't mean you have everything in common with those platforms.

Cometic Headgasket. in the Honda world, these can be used, but lowering compression on a stock does little to help the engine when it comes to boost. Even the stock compression can do more than fine, as well as keep your acceleration rate in a better powerband. Lowering compression by headgasket is a bandaid mainly used for bad tuning. Getting it tuned correctly, eliminates the need to have thicker head gaskets, even on built engines. You'd be suprised how well the stock hardware components on Hondas can take to turbocharging. Get it tuned correctly, w/ better management, and again, you'll be fine.

Lastly, the stock block has no need for an AEM fuel rail and FPR. You're not running nearly enough power to have the need for one of these items even when you're changing injectors. Concentrate on the injectors that you plan to use, instead of these needless parts. Again, for the way the fuel is delivered, the stock fuel rail can take well over 350whp without the need of an AEM unit. More than enough power than what the stock engine can handle. again, sell those items towards real management, and start investigating finding a tuner for something like a Hondata or Neptune in your area.

These comments are not trying to break you down, just ways in which you can reuse money for the right equipment, get reliable, and put down the power that the stock block can handle with minimum issues. Check the FAQs also, you'd be supprised on how your questions can be answered by clicking on those links.

GL.

 

Sorry I forgot, I already have a stage 2 exedy clutch and flywheel. What do you mean? All that stuff is garbage or that I dont need all of it to make 300hp.. I am trying to make it reliable with all the electronics and the injection kit but that is just based off what I have read. What do you suggest to replace them. I mean from what I read it should be able to hit 400hp with those things but I could be hitting way off.

 

Thanks for the insight. I want to hit 325-350hp on a stock block. I have always been told to boost you have to match (vtec engines need lowering) the compression hence the reason b18s and b20s are able to boost 12psi completely stock. I plan to run 12psi on the motor but have the ability to turn it up when I need to. The reason I got away from hondata or uberdata is there is no reliable tuner anywhere near me and it is just easier to street tune with those products. I have not purchased the parts but I am currently in Iraq and just want to get ordering and start ordering the parts.

 

Also if I dont have to spend all that money to have an efficient and reliable setup then I wont. I have plenty of other things I could spend it on...lol. ohh and it is the Apexi NEO S-AFC controller.

 

your engine can't really do 400. shoot for 300.

More electronics is not going to help. All you need is a stock ecu that has been modified to be tuned like TheShodan explained already.

ECU-255lph pump-750cc injectors. There is a fuel system that can easily do 400whp. No rails or lines or regulator needed.

-For your turbo forget greddy. get a regular garrett t3/t4 60trim with a .63 a/r on the turbine so you can still make good high rpm power.
-Get a nice manifold that is known to be reliable from a vendor on here...peak boost, full race etc...The best bet would be to get a manifold, downpipe and charge pipes all from the same place so it fits as good as it can without being a full custom job. you will want to get a 3" exhaust as well.
-Get an oil line kit from a vendor here and have your oil pan welded for the return fitting.
-Leave the engine stock. you don't need cams really. Even though the b16 cams are small you can still make 300whp at very low boost levels. You don't need an intake manifold either. Wait until you do pistons and rods to add an IM and cams. you'll have enough trouble running such low boost without making the engine breath better.

-having a wideband 02 gauge is a good idea though. Get a boost gauge too.
-For boost control, just get a simple manual controler since you will likely only be running 10psi to get 300whp. (mine made about 305 at 10.5psi with a 60 trim)

 

you can hit that just fine with your stock compression, but your not gona be reliable trying to tune with a afc, and like already pointed out you dont need all that to make your hp goal.

 

Well Im on a $5k budget so what common FI products might you guys recommend? And my ECU is flashed and mapped so I dont have a redline but it was like that when I got it and I am not sure what program was used.

 

what car, year is this going into?
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-49/peakboost-ftw-turbo-systems-%242-899-00-shipped-2441784/ and injectors, fuel pump and get your car tuned and your set

 

what ecu do you have? It was 'chipped' not 'flashed' btw..and likely with a horrible tune by the sounds of it.

 

There ya go. Get that stuff, exhaust, your gauges, ecu setup and a good tuner. Use the extra money for a tow dolly to get your car to a good tuner. It's worth it.

 

Its a P30 and its mapped to run the Skunk 2 IM.. I got it that way and my car is clean fool...lol..Im fine with all motor and its runs perfect.. Like I said I have few years of experience and have owned multiple EGs but this is my first turbo and I only had cars that were fast on the street.

 

No revlimt is a big flaw. It's nothing more than some ricer BS to brag about to people that don't have any knowledge past what is in magazines and movies. It doesn't really matter though. I'm glad you like your car. Hatchs with b16 turbos are pretty fun, so I'm sure you will get a kick out of toasting mustangs and little street bikes in the future.

I would suggest getting some good tires and good front brakes too.

 

Yeah I learned that at the track when I had to try and match to launch and all my boys just bounced off the rev and popped the clutch. But like I said I got the car like that and plz dont label me a ricer cause of that. I have plenty of knowledge to make a fast street car but I want to be legit and make a track car. I am not a NOOB to hondas or tuning but when I started we didnt have all these benefits and new products just wire cutters and electric tape and we made things happen. So call it ghetto if you want but on the street thats how it was done before fast and furious came out. I see were you guys are coming from and for the last 6 years I been in the army moving around and most posts dont have a tuning shop near them. But that setup is nice, I will prolly go with that and some precisions. Thanks guys.

 

Ohh yeah I was gonna go with slipstreams at first cause their weight and I like them but too many ppl have them so I prolly go with the flashbacks or some other mesh rim. But no matter what Im getting azenis RT-615s always worked for me. And powerstop brakes for the front.

 

Finding the right tuner is just as important as the managment system itself. Uberdata is an Uber no-no. Some of us use the stock injectors and take the IC pipe off to drive hours to the tuner to put in the right injectors and tune. All part of the process to get reliable. What that means to say is that in order to have reliability, you'll have to go through some sacrifices to get it done right. especially if you have a 5K budget.

 

Thanks for the info...I was not implying I wasnt going to get it tuned by pros but more along the lines that I was just gonna street tune it till I got the chance or so I could drive it..But I am taking your guys' info into affect and already starting pricing out a s300 with uego and started to research that a little bit more..again thanx guys. The reason I was going to get a headgasket is cause I am going to use arp headstuds and figured it wouldn't hurt to lower the CR. But I will research more.

 

No need to lower the compression. If it ain't broke then don't fix it. As for the UEGO, its only needed during tuning, that's all.

 

hey im doing myself a b16 turbo in my crx.. if i were you, i believe u said you were on a 5 grand limit. you already got the b16 in the eg right?.. well if so i can tell you my plans for my budget being around the same as yours.. of course no matter what you do you will go over your budget, thats how it goes, no getting around it.. check out the peakboost turbo kit, best bang for your buck 2800$ (peakboost.net is there website), walbro 255lph 100$ i believe.. precision 780cc injectors for 269$ (pherable.net), aem uego wideband 200$ (ebay), turbosmart single or dual stage controller up to you, im going with dual stage.. 3 inch exhaust custom mendrel bent or thermal exhaust, cometic or oem head gasket, arp head studs.. and find yourself a tuner.. your location says upper new york, im sure there are plenty of tuners in the new york/new jersey area.. to name a few that i know of in that area or nrg tech, midnight auto, yosolo, and others an i live in maryland.. my tuner is john kerr, he is located in PA, good guy and good tuner, always there for help.. he also chips ecu's an can give you a base map so you can get your car started with the turbo.. check out his web site j-k-tuning.com you can send out your ecu an get a chipped basemap for your set up.. but dont think a base map is going to work as a tune, trust me it wont.. its enough to hook up your set up start, maybe take it for a spin around the block and not hit boost, i mean you prob could drive it, but your running a stock block, dont risk all that money.. i think most of the stuff i named can be done for 5g's

 

excellent contribution. That sounds like the way to go.

 

If the motor is as clean/healthy as you say it is, it should stay unmolested in terms of intake or HG. The S2 mani will leave you with even less low/mid range, and 'turbo' cams don't normally do as well as NA cams on a Honda, although almost everything is better than stock b16 cams. The post far above is saying you want different parts, not the ones listed. As TheShodan said, this is not a MAF-based, factory-turbocharged car. You want full control of timing, not a rabbit in a hat trick with a miraid of electronic devices. The Fast and The Furious movies have decieved many people...


The problem with a stock B16 is mostly the pistons - the compression is a fraction of the issue. OEM Honda gaskets usually last much longer than Cometic. You have to run a bit less boost than a proper setup due to compression, but you don't exactly need a HUGE snail because of that. My friend's first turbo Honda came with an SiR B16A using a 60trim T3 off a Ford Thunderbird. It made 250whp @9psi using uberdata, although it was an open downpipe.

As for electronics, you would be best off with an EMS like Hondata/Neptune/eCtune. All plug into a Honda OBD1 ecu, and all three have gear-based boost control just like the AVCR - except w/o all the gear 'learning' of the AVCR. The best turbo would likely be a 50trim t3/t04e with a stg3 .63ar turbine. I know 15psi on a 8:1cr D16 nets 300whp with that turbo, and far more on a stock B16. The AEM fpr/rail isn't needed, as long as you get one of those three EMS's. The stock rail can supply lots of power, and the EMS's can deal with the extra fuel pressure at idle. I would recommend another wideband, only because people aren't generally impressed with AEM's unit.

 

I have used a OEM headgasket on my B16A for over 30K miles, 17K of it boosted at 248whp.

You are limited to about 11 psi because of your stock MAP sensor. With the aforementioned t3/t4 57 trim with the 0.63 A/R you could reach 300 whp at that boost level reliably.

People are always selling used turbo gear and you could find some great deals to get the items you need and or trade the ones you don't need in the marketplace.

I also have a stock fuel rail and fuel pump, but I recommend upgrading your pump.

I reached my power goal with a smaller turbo than you did. I had a regular greddy 18G turbo kit. I rebuilt my engine using SRP 9.9:1 pistons and crower rods. I did use ARP head studs. The intake manifold was stock. The exhaust was only 2.5" with a cat and resonator. I also had the B16 cams. My ECU was the AEM EMS, which is an extremely nice piece, but a Hondata S300 will be just fine for you. I had RC 550's, but to reach 300 whp I would have gone bigger. Your selection is fine with room to improve.

Good luck with getting rid of the unneeded stuff and buying the right stuff. There is great advice in this thread already and plenty of information available in this forum.

I actually had my car towed to my tuner after my rebuild. He broke it in on the dyno. I scared $*&!less that it would blowup, but it has done well for many miles. Get your car street tuned for only a few psi and drive it to a reliable tuner for the rest of the tuning.

Isn't Synapse Motorsports in upstate NY?

 

Hey form Sydney

Good real but no ones mentioned modifying the PCV now that its under positive pressure

I'm just about to finish my EG5 Turbo JDM SiR ll B16A2 after blowing up my Turbo D16Y1/D16Z6!
The EBC failed and she ever boosted to 17psi but was only tuned for 11psi with stock internals... con rod straight through the block!!

In fact I'm starting the turbo kit install in about an half a hour haha

I'm always surprised how complicated people make things without any real need

My new project consists of the following parts witch there are simple yet affective...Simplicity is key IMO... less things to go wrong!!

1. Motor - JDM SiR ll B16A2 (Stock 10.4 comp)
2. ECU - P30 odb1 Chipped with Hondata S100B
3. Turbosmart - E-Boost 2 - EBC (My one and only gauge)
4. Injectors - RC 440CC
5. Front Mounted Intercooler + Piping + Silicon Hoses + Hose Clamps
6. Turbo - Garrett GT2871r 0.86 rear + Water Lines & Connectors
7. HKS - Log Manifold (Chosen for Longevity and A/C Friendly)
8. Custom 2.5" Dump Pipe
9. Dripped Sump Pan + Braided Oil Feed & Return Lines
10. Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
11. Custom 2.5" Mandrel Bent Exhaust with High Flow Steal Cat & N1 Cannon Muffler
12. Moroso Oil Catch Can with Custom PCV Setup
13. MFactory Road/Race Heavy Duty Clutch
14. MFactory Helical LSD
15. Spark Plugs - NGK BKR7E Gaped to 0.9mm or 0.8

Should be good for 250HP ATW

This is only my second boosted car and my first DOHC VTec but I think I'm on the right track after lots of research and reading.

Luke