Hey guys,

Im currently looking to make a switch to another brake pad. These will be on a 97 civic ex coupe, 2850 race weight (me in it, fuel, etc) and is usually used for HPDE and drag events. OEM rotors and calipers are being used in the front to clear Lensos and slicks. The car will be ran at HPDE events with street tires.

Im currently trying to decide between the Carbotech XP10 and XP12. Anyone have experience with either? I have also considered Cobalt, but don't know much of anything about their line. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

I love the Carbotech XP10's the 12's go through rotors to fast IMO

 

did i read that correctly? did you say 2850 race weight? how did you make a civic that heay?

 

I really like the Cobalt XR series of brakes. If you are really running at 2850 with the OE brakes, and street tires i'd suggest the XR3 compound.

As that is a really awkward setup, 2850lbs with street tires....


As you get more into the RR world you will realize that brakes and tires are kind of like religion people are usually pretty polarized about what they like.

 

lol same thought i had.....

 

He's got a full weight late 90s civic coupe if I remember right. With some shiny snail shapped thing adding weight to the motor

 

As per Carbotech's suggestion, I ran XP8 front and Bobcat 1521 rear at my first HPDE. I didn't have any problems. Zero fade during sessions.

Here's my setup for comparison.

1993 Civic HB w/ B18C
Valvoline Synpower
15/16 MC w/ 4040 prop valve
Integra brakes F/R
Autozone blanks
Toyo R1R 205/50-R15

 

How fast is fast?

Yes the car weighs 2850. The car is supposed to weigh around 2460 stock, then add the b series motor over the D, weight of a turbo kit, full fuel, spare, jack, etc still in the car, and a 200 lb driver and suddenly yes you are in the 2800-2850 range. Sometimes more when a passenger is riding.

 

i'm on Carbotech XP10 front, Hawk HP+ rear. absolutely amazing setup. rear doesn't lock up (partially cuz i have ABS), and they XP10 don't eat rotors TOO much.

 

Im not worried about the rotors at all, but how well do they do as far a fade due to heat?

 

aaa you have to take the spare tire and jack out, as well as floor mats for HPDE.


But you are going to burn through pretty much ANY pad.

you have 9.5 or 10.1 inch rotors and the caliper that accompanies them. I would give the XR2s a shot.

Get ready to rebuild the front end of that car often. (caliper seals, ball joints, bearings, ect).

 

The XP10s are a good pad, but may be too much if you are just getting into hpde's and have street tires.

 

i am running the XP10's with street tires, and they do not fade at all (at least not yet) i'm still on OEM brake lines and i am using Motul RBF600.

 

Hmmm, some good input here. Ive been out to HPDE events, just not with this car. I have only auto-xd it a while back and it is kind of impractical for it now. Most of my track experience comes from KT100 karts, so I have a pretty good feel for the track. Im really not trying to get into anything crazy, I just plan on going a few times with some friends on T&T days to have some fun.

The main reason I am concerned with fade is with the lenso's on at the dragstrip after two backed to back passes i get really bad fade from EBC reds, EBC yellow, Hawk HPs, and Hawk HPs plus and really want something that wont roast so easily. With drag radials and normal 15 inch rims on I didnt have that problem, but the lensos just hold seem to hold the heat in.

 

Why the heck are you fading brakes after two drag passes? That seems absolutely ludicrous, especially with (of your listed pad choices) the HP+s. They can stand up to some decent heat (at the VERY least, one 30-minute track session), so I can't even begin to understand why they'd fade after two 100-30mph braking zones, whether they're back to back or not. That being said, it makes me wonder if you don't have some other issue with your braking system. Unless you've heard otherwise, I haven't heard of these braking problems from other guys using Lensos, so...

As a general recommendation, I suggest Cobalt pads. I've used them for years now, and like them much more than anything else I've tried, including Carbotechs. However, the things I like about them other people apparently don't. They are also VERY expensive (~$170 for a set of front pads), whereas other options might be a little cheaper.

I didn't see it specified anywhere, what kind of tires will you be using? I found the Cobalt XR2s to be too aggressive for street tires, and the XR3s were "ok". Carbotechs have a different kind of bite (not as hard on the initial bite), and were friendlier with street tires. If you're using R-comps, any of them will work, and with the weight of your car XR2s would be more appropriate than XR3s. I'd also SERIOUSLY look into some kind of brake ducting, as you'll be toasting the hell out of everything in the front end with how everything is now.

 

Thanks for the info. The car will be on street tires.

What do you like about the cobalts that others don't?

As far as the heat at the dragstrip, it really depends where I am at. I usually cross the line doing 129-130 (from datalogs) and slow to around 15 to make the sharp turn with the slicks. The track I usually run at isn't NRHA sanction and has a relatively small braking zone. I never really notice issues when I run at ORP or other NHRA tracks which have much more room. I also currently have the dust shields on, which as pointed out by splitime via pm is really killing me.

I plan to warranty my autozone rotors and put them on with whatever pads I decide on. also at the time I am going to get new ss brake lines, ate fluid, and remove the dust shields.

Thanks for the input guys, this is really helping me out.

Since im on street tires it sounds like the carbotechs may be a bit better then?

 

Yep.

You'll be happy with the results. Carbotech rocks.

JW- Carbotech "factory driver" for 7 years straight.

 

Would you recommend the 10's or 12's then?

 

At VIR I'm braking down from 120 on the back straight and 115 on the front straight. I'm not slowing all the way down to 15 mph like you are but I am close to threshold braking and I had zero brake problems. I would check your braking system out to make sure you don't have some other problem.

 

I'd go with the XP10's. That should be more than enough to handle for what you're asking. The XP12's are more designed for heavy, high HP track cars. I've used both 10 and 12's and like them both.

Call Danny at Carbotech and he'll be more than willing to talk to you about it.

www.ctbrakes.com

1-877-899-5024

Good Luck.

 

Yeah, for street tires Carbotechs will be better, and the XP10s will at the very least be a better "introductory" pad than the XP12s. If you're hitting 130 in the 1/4, what kind of power are you putting down?

And still, check your calipers and stuff to make sure they're in working order. It might just be little calipers and rotors on a heavy car, but that sounds fishy to me.

 

Would you guys agree on running xp10 at each 4 corners with normal size rear disc and fastbrakes 11 inches front brakes ? I've been liking Gransport GS3 at 4 corners a lot on my car...i can't convince myself that xp8 will be suffisent/better in the rear...

never had lock up problems with GS3 at them 4 corners...

inputs appreciated

 

I actually run bobcats in the rear with xp10's in the front. You wouldn't want something as aggressive as the xp10 in the rear. Carbotech recommends the xp8's in the rear when using 10's up front.

 

There seem to be two schools of braking: using the same aggressive compound all around, and using an aggressive front with a non-aggressive rear compound. I've found the non-aggressive rear to work best for me, but others are somehow making the other way work. How? I really don't know. It doesn't even make sense to me, from a vehicle dynamics standpoint, but these are seriously qualified drivers making that choice. Given that, I can't dismiss it as false.

What I don't know in every case are the specifics of each driver's brake setup; some people (like myself) have stock/OEM stuff, right down to lines and proportioning valves. Others have high-dollar calipers with fabbed lines and adjustable proportioning valves, along with hours of testing to dial it in. While that might be able to yield ideal results, it would also require an experienced driver with some kind of data acquisition for the testing.

So Pat, for your question, I'd personally say "no, XP10s in the rear won't be good" but others will disagree. I haven't driven on GS3s, so I can't say how they compare to XP10s in aggressiveness.

 

i wouldn't drive with the same type of pads in the rear as the front. for cars without ABS, this usually tends to cause the rears to lock up.