Calling all D-Series owners who have done this swap in the past, I need some advise. I'm new to the Civic/EF.. I'm done with my h22 swap prelude and am starting a new project.

Anyway, Been doing research on Mini-Me's and what need to be done, but a lot of you guys are saying not to waste your time, or money, and go for a Turbo-D. not that I don't agree with you, but hear out my situation.

I've got a mildy built -Z6 Head already from a friend of mine , and a Stock A6 Block to work with.

Z6 Head - Port & Polish, Stage 2 Cam, Port matched Intake Mani, Valve Springs
A6 Block - Stock
Si Trany with rebuilt obx Lsd



This is what I have to work with, So I've decided to just rebuild the Block & Stick with all- motor setup. I'm curious to those who have done this, is there anything mandatory that I need besides the basics? Also, with that head, about how high can I expect to Rev this engine safely.. That is assuming I have ARP Rod bolts & properly balanced bottom end.

Most People.. dont' start with a built Z6 Head when doing a mini me. Assuming that I only have to do the bottom to build, what would you do?

I'm looking for a simple all motor bottom end, thats cheap, that will hold up and smoke my Prelude with H22. The lude just isn't doing it for me (can't beat 15.3)

Any Expertise advise would be greatly appreciated guys.. I'm going D'

 

pistons & rods, deck and mill the block/head. should be okay to use the stock crank.

expect not to be able to rev past 7300 unless you tune out the rev limiter on your ecu

should be able to do better than 15's

 

"expect not to be able to rev past 7300 unless you tune out the rev limiter on your ecu" ^^^^


Thanks, Yeah I'm going to convert to obd1. this is going in an 91 Si EF, So I'm still deciding what to do for my tuning option. I have a p28 available. I was thinking about Phearable.net for a nice basemap.

Say if I was properly tuned, with stronger internals ARP bolts, How high to D's typically go? Not trying to go way over powerband just curious.. I want 8-8.5k "Safely"

 

I have a mini-me. B7 bottom Z6 head. All stock internals + ARP head bolts. Stock P28 and it rev limits about 7500 to 7600 rpm's. Got about 50k on motor since I built it 1-1/2 yrs ago (rings/bearings/gaskets) and it still runs great.

 

I was kinda interested if anybody had better luck using the ZC pistons for higher compression and if running around 11.5-12 comp would be ideal for using 91/92 octane.

I don't want this thing too crazy but I'm really trying to crank some juice out of this D.

 

????

 

use hondata s300,itbs

 

i can help you out here...

the redline is limited by a few things. the first is the stroke. the advantage of the d is its low-end torque from such a small displacement, and the stroke has alot to do with that. this is one reason i believe a d with a small turbo can be so effective! but, alas, we are talking about n/a...

so, the next thing that will limit you is obviously the flow potential and cam timing. i'd not worry about that; since this somewhat of a budget build, i'd stick with what works and go from there- whatever redline you end up with, it'll be fine. get a nice header, use the head you have (assuming it's ported and massaged properly) and move on.

so, upgrading the rod bolts are a nice insurance addition. i would also shot peen the rods or send them out to be cryo'ed...or both. balancing is important, but you will find that it'll probably be balanced for your needs from the factory, esp if you are using OE pistons....

speaking of pistons, the one thing that i'm curious about is if the head has been milled. that is the problem with a second hand ported head, you can't be sure unless you take some pretty thorough measurements. this is very important as it will decide what pistons you can use. if the head is within spec, say, no more than 15 thou off vs. stock, then def do use the p29 pistons, otherwise known as pm7 (dohc zc). get them new; i don't recommend using aftermarket OE replacement, but others may disagree. i just love the quality of the OE units. maybe the aftermarket ones now are better, maybe they've addressed the thin ring lands of the stockers, i don't know.

if you are unsure of the head, or it's milled significantly, i'd either get another head, or simply run the good old a6 pm6 pistons.

you will be able to run the p29 setup on 91/92. you need to run bkr6e-11 plugs, make sure the combustion chamber edges aren't sharp or burred if the head has been surfaced/milled, make sure the piston tops are nice, also make sure the combustion chamber and valves are spotless before assembly- no crud is acceptiable as it'll only invite detonation.

something to consider is a bigger cam, like the crower stage 3. this is for a couple reasons...one is that it'll effectively kill some of the compression, which can be an 'ok' thing for you considering your fueling situation. the second is the most obvious, which will be more lift, more duration, etc so you'll get better breathing up top and some nice torque. you won't have any real idle problems if it's tuned well, though you might have to keep a bit of a higher idle. you might want to look into their springs and retainers too to match the cam. that's a personal preference of mine; i like to match valvetrain components when possible.

so i've touched on tuning it; anything will work for this- neptune, hondata, the DIY ****. you just need decent resolution and control because it's essential considering your fuel quality and compression.

this thing really depends on budget. you can probably get away with just slapping p29's in, doing the rod bolts, and tuning it accordingly!

 

i had luck with my high compression SOHC build... heres how she came out.

Block -
zc block
zc rods,
PM7 DOHC ZC pistons
all oem bearing and seals

Head-
Z6 head, 100% stock.

Drivetrain -
ACT 8 LBS flywheel
ACT stage one clutch

compression was 12:1

Produced 128.5WHP and 124 FtLbs of torque, tuned by Mikey of profunction

 

dyno numbers are arbitrary, but i can tell you for sure that your setup would have made another 25-30+ whp with bigger gains than that across the curve with a properly massaged head with an aggressive cam, and a nice custom header.

what happened to this engine?

 

The ring lands on cylinder two gave way on the piston, scored up the sleeve beyond a hone. should have bought new OEM pistons, but it was a budget build and i got the pistons and rods for 25 bucks was really looking forward to adding a Crower 3 cam, and a bisimoto header.

 

hmm....yeah, you know though man, the ring lands are a prob with those pistons; they are so sensitive to detonation. it potentially could have happened with the new ones too.

i went through several sets trying to run some pretty crazy compression setups, and finally i ran the big cam and tuned it with a powerFC and i ended up parting it out in the summer of '07 despite running perfectly with the same set of pistons and rings for 25k.

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73020

 

ahh, mine only had about 8k on it... why did you sell yours? Ive read your post on D-series.org on building a powerful street d series, and that gave me the inspiration to do mine, being the underdog is fun. Are there any specific pistons you would suggest if you were to build another one?

 

that's the thing, i dunno if any of the aftermarket OE replacement units have beefier ring lands. to me it would seem they SHOULD make them, and they might, but i just am not sure. i know alot of the d.org guys now are promoting using flat top pistons, not only for their different combustion properties, but also i think because the ring lands are beefier.

unfort i'm sorta out of the whole d scene, so i don't know that much anymore, but i do know that if tuned and not totally abused, the p29 'should' last. it's a tried and true formula. would be even better if anyone can confirm superior OE replacement type units being available.

hey i'm glad i could inspire your build. i am not happy that it didn't work out well for you, but sometimes it's trial and error. i sold my engine because i decided to swap in a jdm b18c 4/07...something that never worked out well for me as i had a vibration issue i could never quite figure out. i ended up selling the entire car in 12/07 after 10 years of ownership.

i wish you luck with your current project(s).

 

My Mini Me Build head is already adequate enough for me I believe. I'll probably stick with the (stage2) Cam.

I've leaning towards the P29 Pistons but I'm worried of the compression getting too high with that head.

I'd like to keep compression around 11 & 91 pump.

You keep saying the ring lands being weak, and the possibility of newer pistons coming with stronger ring lands. I don't buy any auto parts off of ebay, I really don't believe in it. However, this is a budget project so I'm just gonna ask what you think of something like this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...1%7C240%3A1318

The Pistons can be added for 65$ which are the "NPR" or Nippon? with Chrome nitride rings.

I also plan on shot peening the rods, and using ARP bolts to put it together.

? - Whats a good recommended bore size? Just simply .5 over or has anybody had luck with going a full 1mm over? I know thats cutting the walls super close, But lets just assume I wasn't going turbo.. would I be okay with that big of a Bore? It's obviously the bigger Displacement I'm after.

 

as long as the head isn't milled crazy, the compression will be fine; don't worry about it, you will def be able to make adjustments and tune it w/o having to kill THAT much timing or use any bandaids.

nippon is the aftermarket brand that's been sold for a long time. new OE pistons are 40 bucks each from where i used to get them, http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...s=&view=normal

evidently the nippon units are alot cheaper; i guess for this build, you could try 'em.

about the bore- just go .5 over

the extra needed to hit 1mm isn't worth the 1. add'l potential for disaster due to thin walls and those normal operating cylinder pressures (plus the risk if it pings) and 2. the loss of material incase you kill the walls and need to overbore again.

you can try it, but you'll notice nothing from it.

good luck y0!

 

Ok. I plan on doin the mini swap my B7 DX. Tranny just went out and i was wondering if the EX bolts right up and if not what I will need to do so.
Also, after the swap, i can follow my new rev limiter safely? Or stick to the 6k?

 

swap the h22 from the lude to the civic? run 12's then. just my .02, i'm not hatin...

 

yes, the trans will bolt up fine and yes the EX ecu will be fine

 

thank you! lol. And what you think? EX over si trans?