The first race started and I worked my way from 5th place starting position up into 1st place. I was helped by 2 race starts and a yellow start. After coming threw 8 I noticed that Jason was getting a good run on me up the inside, I also noticed that an instructor (I am really bad with names) in the white mustang was running up on me from the outside. Entering the kink I lifted to scrub my speed then got right back on it for turn in. I was concerned because when Jason backed off he went into my blind spot and I didn't know if he had enough room to fall back in behind me. I played it safe and gave Jason room just incase. That was the worst mistake of my life I dropped two wheels and it seemed like the front wheel still on track pulled the car right and sent me on a 200 foot slide into the tree's.

Once I started sliding I tried braking and that is about it. I was scared that moving the wheel might cause a barrel roll. I put both feet in and rode helpless toward the tree's. Once I was sure that I was going to hit I let go of the wheel and took a deep breath. The next thing I remember is trying to feel around for the ignition key because the car was still running. I couldn't find it because it was about a foot lower than it should be. Finally my knee grazed the column and I turned the car off. I had no idea where the hell I was, I couldn't open my eyes at first because the light was hurting. The best way I can describe the way I felt was when the dentist gives you laughing gas and you get the spins and it sort of feels like you aren't in control of your body anymore. Then I heard someone yelling "are you ok, are you ok?" I thought to myself NO!, but physically I was ok and yelled ****! That's when I heard him say "he's ok". I don't really remember getting out of the car and getting in the ambulance but I do remember the ride back.

The more I think about the more I realize how lucky I am to be alive. My first concern was obviously for Drew. I couldn't believe what just went down. I was conservative all day long and that is something that I will never do again. I really think that having the thought of not wanting to even get a scratch on Drew's car hurt me. I can't have those thoughts running threw my head while I am racing.

Things are going to work out though. I am obviously really glad that I am still alive but, it is going to work out for Drew also. Watch out, there is a nice surprise coming soon to the Honda challenge.

Ok first off thanks to the people that took the time to read this. I would really like feedback on what I might have been able to do to correct the situation.


Edit: It pulled the car right not left.


[Modified by Mclaren_F1_Fan, 4:24 PM 8/6/2002]

 

I would really like feedback on what I might have been able to do to correct the situation.


Learn to counter-steer

 

How do you counter steer a car moving sideways down the grass? Did you mean to say learn to barrel roll a car?

 

i think he means before you end up in the grass

 

There is a lot of truth to what Jack said. The school mentallity is "both feet in and straight". This is fine in many "off" situations but it conflicts with another philosophy of "never stop driving the car" (Karl!). I think the school mentallity is what helped contribute to the situation. Is this a bad thing? No. You did what you were taught. Was it the best thing in the situation? Not really but you learned from it. I guarantee you the next time you start to spin your thoughts won't be "both feet in and straight". It will be "I am gonna keep trying to drive this thing until I hit something."

 

I know that, I was on track all of a split second. Do you really want to counter steer a car going over 100+ moving side ways? I am asking here I am not trying to be an ***. Maybe you could explain you comment Jack. How do you counter steer a car sideways going in exsess of 100 mph? Sounds to me like that if I did then when I went off it would have grabbed and rolled me for sure. Am I wrong in thinking this?

 

Corey describes this better than i can with hand motions, he was talking about this on sunday.

At any rate, this goes back to the skidpad exercise that BSR teaches you at Friday At the Track excercises. Countersteer too late, you spin. Countersteer too slow, you spin. Do nothing, you spin. Its hard to get *right* and the biggest thing i learned was that you need to start countersteering as the car begins to slip. When the car is sideways is already too late.

RJ

 

I agree totally with that. I didn't stop driving the car I just didn't see anyway of getting out the slide I was in. That is what I am trying to find out here.

 

How do you counter steer a car sideways going in exsess of 100 mph?


with years of experience, not being an *** but. Many of us "racers" can handle two wheels off, even the rears one.....cough..Kent...cough...Corey..cough.cough.

 

Ok I see where your going with this. You are saying I should know I was going off before I did and counter steered earlier to try to prevent the car from snapping sideways? If so damn your right! I didn't even think of it that way. Thanks Jack. It seems you are a man of few words but you make them count!

 

First of all, Keith, I am glad your ok.. Whenever a car comes to a sudden stop like that, bad stuff can happen...

Drew, sorry about your loss of your dream racecar, it was definitly heart dropping to hear about the incident, and I was kinda scared to talk to you about it, why, I don't know..

Yes, You can countersteer a car going over a 100mph... Its a FWD car, therefor it needs you to stand on the throttle and countersteer to stay straight.. Standing on the throttle makes the front wheels basically pull the back ones straight, and also makes the weight transfer to the back tires.

I did get 2 off on the exit of the kink during qualifying.. the rear stepped out a little but I kept the throttle planted and just steered the car where it wanted to go.. once I was sure I had contol, I brought it back to the right to start braking.. It can be done, you just have to pound it in your head to STAY on the throttle at all costs, if you do not want to spin...

 

People, let's try to keep this constructive. Keith wants to learn from what happenend - I'd like to see us help him.

 

I though that staying in the throttle might have hurt me in the situation because that is what I did. I straightened the wheels to try to settle the car down. I have dropped 2 wheels in the entrance of turn 3 at summit trying to get as far over as I can and every time I gunned it and straighten the wheels which gave me better control of the car. This time I gunned it straightened the wheels and had it snap on me

 

Another thing I would like to add... After the comment about KNOWING when your in trouble.. A lot of times, when I know I am going into a corner to hot, I purposely lift the throttle to make it rotate mid corner, then get immediatly back into the throttle to pull it straight... I do this when I know before hand, that I will be in trouble if i do not lift at some point...

 

Check out this crappy lap of mine at Summit. Pay attention to T4 and check out the mad countersteer when the back stepped out on me....

SAVE AS!!


http://backupserver.feddirect.com/vi...it_Point07.mpg

That was freaking scary!

 

If you straightened the wheels, that is why it happened.. Car must be countersteering in order so save most slides.. If you countersteer to much though, it can get you in worse trouble..

 

When driving front wheel drive cars, if you think you are in trouble or the car is rotating more than you like keep... the throttle planted. It is VERY common to lift when something isn't going as planned, FWD drivers have to condition themselve to add power when it doesn't seem like the right thing to do. Think about weight transfer, what got you in that spin in the first place. It sounds like you lifted upon turn in, weight is tranfers to right or left front, rear get lights and around you went. If you would have had the throttle down it would have transferred the weight back to the rear, as well as, pulled the front out of the spin.

Once you are in a situation, keep your head up, look where you WANT to go, not exactly where you are heading. I would have tried countersteering into the spin, added some power, at the point I realize it is beyond saving, both feet in.

Seems to me that you experienced a textbook dropping two wheels combined with some lift throttle oversteer mixed with alot of fear. I'm glad to see you came out unscathed and I am sorry about the car.

mike

 

Sounds like from your description you entered the turn too fast for the position you were in. You gave the guy behind you room, which is fine. But it sounds to me like you needed to scrub off more speed because you now are no where near the apex. You've effectively decreased the radius of your turn, so you can't take it nearly as fast. 100+ through the kink off-line sounds too fast to me.

Just my thoughts, glad you're OK to race another day. Turn 10 scares me a bit. I generally leave something on the table at that turn after seeing a blue Z-car screw up and slide off drivers right at a high rate of speed a few years ago.

Matt

 

Anytime you put two wheels off the outside you have to "straighten" the wheel and drive the car off on the tangent it wants to follow. As this should rarely be a surprise incident you should reduce steering input in anticipation of the event and use whatever is left of the track to bring your speed down - unless the layout of the corner and surroundings lets you drive off under neutral to full power and reacquire the track subsequently. If you are counter steering on the pavement as you head for the edge you still must point the front wheels in the direction of the tangent the car wants to follow - wherever that is. Once you're off you can apply modest inputs in the low traction environment.

NEVER give up on the car! Time slows after the fateful moment and you'll have lots of stuff passing thru your thoughts. Don't dissassociate from the physical reality - keep driving the car up to the moment of impact.

Screw ups are some of the most effective instructors you'll ever have - if you learn the lessons they teach.

And for what it's worth I think that one of the biggest lessons in this is "no more Mr Nice Guy". Going out of your way for other people on the track doesn't usually work out. Only the very best drivers will take your gift opening, the rest will either not execute or try to execute you. Take the protective line. Focus on your drive. Sure you gotta keep an eye on them - but anytime you're on the track YOU are priority number one. If they're gonna get by they'll get by - that's their job. You make them take you where you let them.

Scott, who won't run team Enduro's with his car because if anybody's going to munch my car it's going to be me....


[Modified by RR98ITR, 9:39 AM 8/6/2002]

 

Actually Scott Giles went all four off out of the kink.. then tried to pass brinson on the inside of 11... after he got back on track... I guess he tought since he was over there...

It looked like he never got out of the throttle and drove it off and back on, he went off on drivers left. I am sure he can fill us in on this move..

 

i went off in the kink in qualifing....i knew when i hit the bump i was going to drift off......i straightened out.....drove the car 2 wheels off.....but because of lack of traction passenger rear slid out....i thought this might happen so i expected it and was ready to counter steer at 90-105....at that point i laid into the throttle and the car pulled straight and i drove back on and braked way deep.....i believe that ended up being my fastest lap in qualifing.....the one i went off.....hmmm.....

when did you know you were going off?


read this after i posted but corey says it well....

I did get 2 off on the exit of the kink during qualifying.. the rear stepped out a little but I kept the throttle planted and just steered the car where it wanted to go.. once I was sure I had contol, I brought it back to the right to start braking.. It can be done, you just have to pound it in your head to STAY on the throttle at all costs, if you do not want to spin...



[Modified by Chad, 3:34 PM 8/6/2002]

 

Not gonna beat you up. You've already had a rough week. I'll just say pretty much what everyone else has been saying. There is no replacement for experience. Sometimes you can get away with lifting, and sometimes you can't.

You have to feel the car and know exactly what it's going to do. You also need to know how MAKE the car do what you want it to do. When my control arm slipped this weekend, I had to make the car go through the turns. I had to lift at the exit of the kink a few times to keep from lawn mowing. Pretty exciting at the top of 4th. Major rotation would occur, but I pulled the trigger on the throttle quickly, and the car would come right back.

I dropped the outside rear off at the exit of the kink saturday during qualifying. Yeeehaw. I didn't even think twice about it. Kept the gas punched (there's probably a dent in the firewall), and steered out of it.

I know schools teach you to give up pretty early, and in general, that's a safe rule. But you know what? You can get away with so much bullshit in a fwd vehicle it's downright disgusting. You can get it so out of shape it's ridiculous. Don't give up. It's highly predictable, even on unpaved surfaces (ask me how I know). Only experience (ie mistakes you can learn from) will teach you what you can get away with.

If it makes you feel any better, I still pucker when I go down the back straight flat out and don't lift for the kink.

Get back on the horse as soon as you can, and get more time in. That's the only way to improve.

luck++
Warren

 

Thank goodness I am not the only one...

 

I knew I was going off when I hit the rumble strips and they didn't provide me the traction I had planned on. After that I straightened the wheels hoping that would settle the *** end. It didn't, it swap on me in a flash. In the R I am used to driving the *** end gets loose a lot so I used to the feeling and, like everyone has been saying put you foot into it and steer where you want to go and it fixed that. In this case I put my foot into it expecting to have it straighten but, I wasn't so lucky. Is it possible that being used to an R and having an LSD caused this?

 

maybe... at thos speeds and that angle LSD may not help as much as expected.

I put my left rear wheel (did everyone?) off after the kink on Friday morning (wet grass!) and went across the gators with the front left and right rear tires bouncing away. I am not sure how I did it... but I was back on track in time for the braking zone at 11.

I think the '03 Cobra driver behind me **** his pants.

Will