i turbocharged my 98 accord a while back and ive only been runnin 5 pounds of boost cuz the engine has almost 190000 miles on it. i wanna run more boost, so im gonna rebuild the engine and tranny, and im gonna put forged internals in the engine. ive been lookin but i havent found a forged crank anywhere. i dont know how much boost a brand new stock crank can hold, so i want a forged crank for peace of mind. does anybody know where i can find a forged crank? if not, does anybody know how much boost the stock crank will take?

 

forgot to mention that im shootin for the 390-450 hp range

 

stock cranks rule.

forged from the factory.

i'm running a BONE STOCK f23 bottom end, and making over 400 whp as is. stock crank, rods, pistons, etc.

put your money into tuning

 

GTFO you newb...

The stock crank will take all you can throw at it. The weak ring-lands on the OE pistons is your weakest link, and will not hold more than ~300whp for for a couple thousand miles AT BEST with a great tune.

 

so what your saying.. is i can turbo my f23a1.. upgrade the pistons and make 400~~ hp?

 

For the block to be reliable with anything more than ~250+whp, you need forged pistons. The stock F23 rods have very narrow beams, so anything over 300whp would need forged rods for the block to be reliable. If you're doing one, you might as well do the other at the same time to save yourself the hassle of building and breaking in the motor twice.

This is not just my opinion. Look up some of the boost veterans (Stinker504, NotoriousB, newcomer hotaccord243) who have achieved 350+whp. They're not running forged cranks, generally just freshly built blocks with crower rods and CP pistons for their bottom ends.

 

while i believe you thouroughly.. i still think youd have to upgrade the plugs, wires, fuel system etc... no? what about the drivetrain? can the stock trans hold that much? sorry for all the questions.. im new to honda// acura. been with toyota audi and bmw my whole life..

 

OH, OK , i'm just lying.

actually i'm not. i think your the "NOOB" . DETONATION is what breaks ringlands. over 10 psi , i run race gas, 10.5:1 AFRs, and conservative timing. the head is a stock f22a1 w/ bisimoto custom grind cam, and bisimoto springs. intake and exhaust manifold are custom built by myself. simply making power doesnt break ringlands....the exponetially increasing cylinder pressures from detonation ARE what breaks ringlands. just because somebody told you something doesnt mean its always right. I AM CORRECT HERE.

2550 lb car w/ driver, runs 11.5 (all day long, did 12 passes the last time i was out.) @ 125-126 MPH.

do the math, and that puts me at about 380-410 whp, with proven reliable calculations. havent had time to dyno it, but it'll make those numbers, no problem. people have made almost 700 whp on stock h22 bottom ends, why cant this one do the same?

eat ***** you insulting dick.

heres how i feel about f23s....and yes, i put my helmet on right after this shot was taken, dont worry.



i, in NO way, recommend anyone try pushing an F so hard every day. i do street drive it a LOT in the summer, but i take it easy on the boost, etc. it gets 30 MPGs and i've taken it on many road trips.

forged rods/pistons are my advice. sleeves are rather thick on Fs (thicker than Bs/Ds), and i am curious as to what their real "limit" is. Bs have been proven to 600 WHP many times (on borrowed time sometimes) and Ds are good to 300-400, but i popped a D sleeve at 330 whp (injector was lower in flow on that one cyclinder, and i reached the limit of pump gas at 26 PSI)

 

Read in to my last post a little more.

Yes, at the 400hp level, other aspects have to be addressed. The majority of stock Honda ignition systems are robust enough to handle up to ~400hp before they begin to break up. Ignition upgrades aren't meant to add much power, rather to be sufficient enough to support the other mods to a motor. OE NGK copper plugs are still the best at that level, but you'll need ones with a colder heat rating. Wires wouldn't hurt, but a set of OEM wires in good shape should do just fine. Stock fuel injectors are only good to around the 170whp level without being modified, as well as the fuel pump. Stock F23 transmissions aren't extremely strong compared to B-series, but they can hold so long as you don't beat on it terribly hard. Obviously the clutch will need to be upgraded to hold the power. Stock axles are fine so long as you don't wheel hop much by dumping the clutch.

Most everything on a well maintained Accord with less than 100,000 miles will be sufficient at those levels. Sleeves are fine, head is fine so long as it's in good condition, the stock cam does pretty well when boosted, and the stock intake manifold is great for boost. In theory, forged pistons and rods with a slight bore and fresh hone on the sleeves, larger injectors, bigger fuel pump a good tuner and enough boost can get you to 400whp safely. It may not be extremely efficient, but it should be pretty reliable with a good tune.

Like I said, search for the guys above. They've documented their builds and results on here and other Accord forums.

 

well..since the CL forum is pretty much non existant.. im here in the accord forum. same mechanically i get that.. if i was going for the cheapest amount of power efficently.. what would you suggest?

like i said.. ive got an intake and exhaust and headers soon.. anything more i can do with just bolt ons? would fuel system upgrades provide any power as ignition system doesnt? what about software.. like a performance chip. ive researched.. but like i said the aftermarket for cl's is pretty non existant unless you go the route of the accord.

 

Wow............info overload lol. forged pistons and rods, slight bore and hone, good tune, etc. gotcha. I havent took the head off, but i had the car for 4+ years, got it with 150000 on it, only thing i replaced was clutch, timing belt and associated parts, and water pump. think the head will hold up to.......lets say........14 pounds of boost?

 

the head will be good to whatever you want.

if you rev the engine past OEM redline much, you'll want to upgrade the valve springs at least.

i'm running 10-15 lbs into a stock head (except i have bisimoto springs/cam)

you might want to look into a better flowing head, but the power isnt going to damage the head reallistically.

 

not gonna raise the redline unless its absolutely necessary. i thought bisimoto only made cams for the f22, and where might i get a better flowin head? or should i get a port 'n polish, cuz i know a guy who does honda heads.

 

I'm going the cheap N/A route myself just to prove a point, but once that's done, I'll change to forced induction.

In pretty close to stock trim my car made 146whp/144wtq and ran a 15.7@88mph weighing 3200lbs with a 2.34 60'. After my OBD1 conversion, tune and a few goodies the car made 169whp/164wtq (different dyno) with less than $700 invested, and ran a 15.2@91.9mph with a 2.6 60' since they were making all cars roll through the water box. A few more mods and a fresh tune, and the car runs a solid 14.48@96.3mph with under $1100 invested. For a 3200lb car that usually runs low 16's stock, that's a great bang for the buck without nitrous. But I digress...

The ability to tune with a full standalone or an OBD1 conversion will unlock the most potential for your car and the bolt-ons you have. Stay away from 'chips', throttle body spacers and gimmicks like that. There are plenty of bolt-ons available that will make power. A ported F23 intake manifold with a big-bore throttle body, H23 intake manifold, cam regrind, a cam gear to bring the power band up a little, milling the head, swap to a H23 or even H22 transmission. There's plenty more potential in the F23 than people give it credit for, and that's what I'm trying to prove.

Fuel upgrades, like ignition upgrades, are there to support other mods. You can install a high flow fuel pump, aftermarket fuel rail, and larger injectors, but if your car doesn't make enough power to require that extra fuel, you're only doing more harm than good.


redzcstandardhatch pretty well summed it up. The head is the least of your concerns. Performing a compression check and leak down test will give you an idea of the condition of your motor, but that's a moot issue if you're going with aftermarket rods and pistons. The stock F23 bore is 86mm, and you can order CP forged pistons and rings in an 86.25mm bore. This way you can bore the sleeves that .25 larger to remove any flaws in the surface and ensure they're perfectly round.

It's alright to raise the rev limiter a little, but it's only realistic to do so if the motor actually continues to make power up top. The F23 doesn't do so well up top in stock form, but that's where an adjustable cam gear and tuning comes in. You dont want to spin it any higher than 7,000 for reliability purposes with stock pistons because they're so heavy, and the stroke is so long. Aftermarket pistons also resolve this issue a bit by being much lighter.

An F22a6 non-VTEC head has optimal valve angles, and responds better to porting than almost any head made by Honda, but it's not just a bolt-on affair. Porting an F23 head can provide some gains, but porting correctly is an art form, not to be accomplished by the DIY'er.

 

the f22a6 head will bolt right on to the engine, physically, but the manifolds are different, thats the goofy part.

it would be your best bet, realistically, if you were shooting for over 400 whp...but even the f23 could do that power level

 

It would be more cost effective to just increase the boost pressure with the F23 head, and take a lot less time. Plus, the F23 intake manifold's large plenum and long narrow runners are great for boost. A lot of the F22 guys actually swap to F23 manifolds for boost, while F23 guys swap to F22A6/H23 manifolds for N/A.

 

the info just keeps comin lol. my car stumbles and surges a lil when its in vacuum, but stops when boostin. im guessin plugs. im runnin ngk iridium. what plug would be better for boost?

 

also, im lookin for an lsd. anybody tried somethin called a phantom grip?

 

phantom grips DO work, BUT, they cause internal stresses inside the transmission, sometimes leading to exploding diffs..

many people use them with good success though, and they do make the stock open diff into a "lsd" , though its basically regarded as a bandaid

 

bah. oh well. thanks for all the info everybody!