Hi, I have a 1992 Honda Accord built in Japan for North America. I have replaced the front brakes twice now, once myself and another time by a mechanic. Both times they were fine for about 2-3 weeks and then they start to warp again. Braking habits is not the problem as my 1998 corolla has had the same brakes for 3 years now with no problems. I have also changed the callipers and pads. It even causes the steering to shake at high speeds and then when you go to push the brakes at high speed to exit the shaking becomes worse. I put 4 new tires on the car as well and rotated them to make sure balancing wasn't an issue.

Any Ideas?

 

Yep, I had the same problem here. I upgraded to slotted rotors to better disipate heat (that causes warpage) and that seemed to solve the problem. The Accord's rotors don't seem to have the best ventilation. That would be my guess as to why they warp so easily. Anything you can do to keep them cooler would help prevent that problem.

 

Is there really such a thing as a warped rotor? All my years of re-surfacing rotors and I have never seen a rotor that was physically warped/out of round. IIRC the pulse that you feel is actually a build up of material from over heating or improperly embedded brake pads.

How to stop this problem is easy.
Always use new pads with new rotors then do a proper break-in (embed the pads to the rotors), stop lead footing your brakes and buy quality parts vs the cheapest you can find. Any of these will help prolong a smooth operating break setup.

As for your shaking, have you looked at your suspension parts..ie upper & lower ball joints, tie rod ends or wheel bearings?

 

High Society:
Thanks for the info, I did use Mountain brake disks the second time which are supposed to be the best before you go performance but it was unreal how long they didn't last. I was wondering if maybe its hub related. Perhaps they go crooked from rusting and being cleaned for the next install etc. They are pretty small rotors for the size of the car. When I bought the car the ones it came with were warped but they as well were not very old.

GhostAccord:
All the parts I used were high quality. A mechanic confirmed that they were indeed warped. If pad build-up was the only possible problem then why you would need to "turn" a rotor you could sand all your problems away with that logic. I've read this "know it all response" in other questions on here before. Perhaps read the whole post before you respond.

 

Do you know what turning a rotor is? It is pretty much sanding it down and making the surface level.

Now that your going to be a know it all douch-e-ma-bag.....have you looked at your suspension parts..ie upper & lower ball joints, tie rod ends or wheel bearings?

 

Turning a rotor isn't sanding, it’s cutting with a small blade until all the "high points" are even with the low points. I have used the tool before as I worked as a mechanic through college. To have high and low points they would have to be WARPED rotors.

Some suspension parts are changed and some have been checked and are fine. Again read the original post as I mentioned the steering shakes when I press the brakes at ANY speed but EVEN causes the steering to shake WITHOUT breaking at high speeds. Pad residue does not cause this. What shop do you work at so I can avoid it?

 

So you take the word of this mechanic that can confirm warped rotors and replace them, but still cannot tell you what is wrong with your car or why it is shaking. Why don't you go back to him and throw some more parts at your problem.

Call me a know it all. Yes I worked in a shop for 5 years and I've dealt with this type of situation many times.....Oh it's not my braking habits and it's not cheap parts....sure it's not. Yours is the only Accord that warps high quality rotors on it's own in less than a month then.

 

Anyway I'm done wasting my time with you....You seem to know so much why don't you fix the F#@king problem yourself. Oh wait that's right a high spot has to be a warped rotor it couldn't be a build up (high spot) of material can it......

 

When I initially removed my stock rotors I layed them on a granite surface plate to see if they would lay flat and not wobble. One was fine, it wasn't perfectly even but it it layed flat enough that it wouldn't really cause a vibration. The driver's side rotor wouldn't lay flat at all, I could rock it back and forth on the surface plate about a 1/8". That would be enough to make my pedal vibrate and my car shudder while braking.
I'm not sure if that was due to build up on the rotors or if it really was warped metal. I don't know enough about brakes to tell the difference. I just replaced them with slotted rotors anyways, which would help with both heat dissipation and keeping them from building up with dirt and brake pad dust.

 

Thanks for the added info high_society. I actually called my mechanic again and he explained that rust builds between the hub and the rotor and that it can cause the rotors to be off center a bit. Or even worse they can be grinded down too many times to clean the rust it can cause the hub to be a little crooked. He also mentioned that slotted or drilled rotors can actually handle them being a little crooked because they dissipate heat better as you had mentioned. Even though I bought mountain rotors they wouldn't do much better in this situation. Sounds like slotted rotors can help. I can buy new hubs as well but they're expensive. Anyways thanks again and I appreciate you reading the WHOLE posting before responding.

 

GhostAccord:

Yes a high spot can be a build-up of material but the mechanic mentioned that the run out proved they were warped. The mechanic new that the problem could be caused by the things I mentioned to high_society but bringing it back to a mechanic would include a 600$ hub replacement charge for my 1200$ car and that's what I don't want to do is throw more parts at my car which is why I turned to the internet.

Again posting a question as I did that explains I've tried all the obvious and you come along and say I'm lying and it's something obvious and the fact is that you're wrong completely defeats the purpose of me asking a question on here. True other more mature people on here probably think to themselves "well just ignore his ignorance". Anyways I'm insisting I put high end parts on rotors: Mountain Pads: sumitomo and as I said my corolla I did the same 3 years ago and its fine. Some more intelligent people then yourself on another blog confirmed the rust build-up problem and suggested to have the rotors machined on the car and that the crooked hubs would then be compensated for. Which is a 50$ fix. That's why I posted on this site. F*#$K you're stupid. Again go back to school and let me know which shop someone let you work at...

 

Yes I'm stupid... your the one that is taking the suggestion of turning your rotor so that it will actually put it out of alignment to balance out the part that is actually the problem.. So now any time you need to replace your rotor you are going to machine it so that it will compensate for a bad hub.

WoW & your calling me stupid...I bet more shops wish they had clients like you. Here are some brand new rotors we can charge you more to have them turned to fit your unbalanced hub. dahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm not saying that it won't work but it really seems like a stupid, band aid thing to do.

 

What was your suggestion? Replace the good quality parts I put in for a third time? Stop lying? Genius

 

I don't know that slotted or drilled rotors will help you at all, I am just suggesting them as a possible route to take.
I know they are used in track applications because brakes get excessively hot and dirty, they slots/holes help resolve those problems. But on a daily driven commuter car, you might not see any benefits.
However, if you have the money then why not give it a shot?
I have slotted rotors on my 16 mile a day wagon, they seem to work fine. But I am willing to bet new blanks would do just as well. Either way, you've got the right idea doing the research and drilled or slotted rotors are just one suggestion.

 

Also, I should mention that slotted rotors look cooler than blanks.

 

They do look cooler, those EBC ones that start off a gold colour. Nice. I'm going to try getting the rotors I have checked to see if they're straight and if they're not it pretty much proves that the hubs are off. I'll replace the hubs and likely buy slotted anyways haha. Or try the machining thing.

 

My suggestion wasn't to go out and waste your money on cool looking slotted rotors that you don't need...ricer.

It was to check your suspension and make sure it wasn't the problem... Oh I didn't specifically say hub but I did say to check the wheel bearings.. Duchebag!

Maybe if you read my whole post you would have seen that instead of jumping all over my for no reason.

 

Again all those things are taken out of context because you read 1% of the posts. And you used douchebag before, it was boring then and is now. douchef*g!

Ricer! It's a 1992 honda accord with a brake problem. You're signature is:

CD5 "Ghost" F22B2 ITB Build
Cheers!

What are you then a ricers bitch?

Haha ricers bitch!

 

1988 thru 1992 Sterlings (Accura drive trains) had a recuring problem with what the Brit's called brake judder. Repeated rotor replacements were most common until they issued a bulletin whereby either a torque wrench was used or a torque limiter was affixed to any impact gun.
They found that unever torque to the lug nuts could indeed cause the rotor to act much like an LP record warping from heat. Although still parallel, the fiction surfaces would wobble from side to side causing unever clamping forces (thus the vibration)
Another factor can be thermal shock; often caused by the sudden cooling of a very hot object - much like a hot brake rotor going thru a puddle. My favorite example is that long braking approach to a highway off ramp and the subsiquent puddle you hit. Instant ^%$&#

P

 

P, coming through with the good ish, as always. Big ups for this man!

 

P Adams, I took a look at the bolts that hold the rotor against the hub and they are pretty tight. The specs only seem to call for like 38ft/lb. My hubs look pretty tired as well. Anyways with the exception of GhostAccord, thanks for the info guys.

 

mansif,

I am having the same trouble with my Accord. When I bought the car used it had brand new rotors and pads and after a few thousand miles the brakes would shudder horribly at 70mph and noticeable all the way to a stop. I drive this thing like a grandma so it is not related to abuse.

I bought all new hardware from TAS Auto (just the regular blank rotors) and, when I disassembled the brakes, I found that one of the rotors was worn on the very outside edge and hardly worn on the inside. I also found that the caliper slide pins had lots of decroded grease - I actually had to bang them out with a hammer! I figured that the caliper's inability to ride on the bracket correctly caused the problem. The shudder was immediately cured and the brakes worked perfectly.

Now a couple more thousand miles down the road and the symptom is showing up again. What the heck?!

I am now planning to install the larger V6 rotors, brackets, and calipers as an upgrade.

Any thoughts about this? Have you looked at the slide pin condition on your car?

 

Slide pins were in good condition in my case, and pads were seated correctly. I can't confirm it, because I didn't know it was a possible issue at the time, but I believe my rotors were suffering from the condition P Adams posted. They just weren't seated flat against the hud. That would make sense too, I had slight vibration at highway speeds when not braking. Sort of similar feeling to an out-of-balance wheel/tire.