Howdy,

Well basically I have a problem letting the car sit over night and starting it up next morning basically a real hard cold start enough to make it crank awhile and then when the engine actually turns on so to say, its all bogging and running rough until I press the throttle pedal quickly and let go within a second it will idle normall and never do it again on start up until its cold.

It seems as if it loses all its fuel pressure but I haven't tested that yet, since I do not have a fuel injection tester.

When I was at my friends shop, we put the fuel pressure gauge on it and cranked it preventing it from starting (Distributor) and we got 50psi, and when we let the car actually turn on and run, it holds 39 psi at idle. So its running fine, but when we shut the car off, it lost about 5psi, and 20 mins later it lost about 2 more psi. Which may be normal, but if not then its gradually losing pressure.

We still haven't figured out the problem but I'm sure we'll know when I let the car sit more than 6 hours and put the gauge on it.

So basically telling you all that without the full test is useless but I'll put it on here incase anyone had similar problems.

So the question is, we're at the point of testing, cleaning, and replacing O-Rings on the injectors. I was wondering if the B16a injectors off the 94 Del-Sol or 99 Civic are the same as the 1st generation JDM B16. As I believe the old school JDM b16 has peek and hold injectors, while the 94 and 99 have maybe PW Injectors. I'm wondering this so I can use either the 94 or 99 as reference to injector o-rings, as I'm going to replace them on my 91 jdm b16a

Any help would be gladly appreciated.

 

I am hoping the injector o rings are the same size. I don't want to have to order them and they're the wrong size. Then the parts store will give me a hard time on giving it back to em.

I know the dealership won't have the part as its JDM. But I am certain there has to be the same size o rings on one of the usdm vehicles as the jdm one.

My CRX has a JDM b16a and currently at Obd0 if that helps. So I'm figuring if they didn't use the injectors that came with the jdm engine, possibility they may have used the CRX injectors. I know they're both Ohm'd out to 2.5 Ohms specifications, so there isn't much a difference there, besides the difference between DOHC VTEC injectors and SOHC injectors.

Really need help to make sure I get right Injector O Rings. Any help is gladly appreciated

 

Check your TW sensor.

Fuel pressure readings are normal, and lossing pressure after turned off is normal. Mine does it also. Its down to 0psi if it sits over night.

The del sol injectos up to '95 are saturated and do not use the resistor box.
The 99 civic si are obd2 injectors and also saturated with no resistor box.
You can use either set but you'll have to do clips and a depin job. And lose the obd0 resistor box.

 

Howdy, I heard the TW sensor does cause a lot of problems. But does it stand for Tempature Water? Is it actually the CTS? Cause I think they're two of them? One behind block pointing to firewall and one under distributor.

I did have idling problems, and it does smell a little rich. I fixed the idle problem by unpluging IACV and adjust to 550 rpm.

I also heard the TW can cause hard starts like you say. But how would I effectively determine that?

Well I was just gonna replace the injector o rings on my car, not the whole injector.

So when you start up in the mornings does it take a bit to start?

Oh yeah and to add, my temp gauge is working fine in my instrument panel.

 

The Coolant Temperature(TW)Sensor uses a temperature dependant diode(thermistor)to measure differences in the coolant temp. The basic fuel injector duration is read out by the signals sent from this sensor through the ECM/ECU.

The Intake Air Temp(IAT)Sensor is also a thermistor and is in the intake manifold. The basic fuel injector duration is read from the memory and again modified to compensate for different operating conditions by the signals sent from this sensor through the ECM/ECU.


Well the TW does not control the temp gauge. The temp gauge has its own sending unit sensor in the head that is a single wire sensor.

The TW sensor is located in the head and is a 2 wire sensor. Usually easily identified by the GOLD hex nut. Its the coolant temp sensor.

In the pic its the gold nut sensor

 

Thats a big *** vtec solenoid you have there, unless its a cover. Didn't think there was any bigger than the jdm version.

Ok cool, I was getting it mixed up with the green plastic end one thats attacked to the tube like extension out of the head.

What could I refer the TW Sensor too for replacement? Since mine is Obd0, could I still use a 94 Del Sol obd1 or 99 Civic obd2 as reference? Thats all I need to know basically, as well as what to refer to the obd0 injector o rings i have also.

 

i had the same problem i replaced my fuel pump it maybe your probleam

 

No because he stated once the car warms up it runs normally and does not do it again till its cold. If it was the pump it would happen on start up no matter what. When its cold, sensors play a role with start up making the engine run rich. If the sensors do not tell the ecu to inject more fuel this would cause a hard cold start. Your engine must be rich upon start up. Then as the engine warms up slowly, the ecu takes the readings from the TW and AIT sensors and slowly reduces the amount of fuel to the injectors.

 

Its not my pic, but its a cover for sure,lol. Well you can use any b series TW sensors. If your just replacing the o rings, YES they are all the same size o rings. Did you consider having your injectors sent out to be cleaned? They replace all the rubber on each injector. If interested PM me, i'll give you all the details.

 

you can get o-ring kits from auto zone or the like...for reference, i believe the 90-93 integra o-rings are the same (b18), and even the 90-91 crx si (d16). they are the same injectors as your b16. i think it's normal for pressure to drop, the fuel goes back to the tank through the return line. you may also have a small leak tho, check for wetness or discoloration on the intake

 

try changing the spark plugs and if that doesnt work i would say plug in another dizzy if your buddy has one you can use ............it may be a fuel problem like you think but i have worked on a few cars with same symtoms and changed the dizzy fixed everything ........just my insight

 

Thanks a ton you all. Well I got another bigger problem. My steering rack took a dump.

Man this is an expensive hobby. I already got new wires and plugs. Only thing I didn't do was the dizzy.

I don't see any wetness or discoloration, although I'll double check twice.

Gonna definately try the TW sensor, will let you all know the results.

 

i would consider replacing your fuel filter if you havent already, that causes some hard-starting issues.

you prime the fuel pump every time it's in the 'on' position, see if you prime it a couple of times if it has the hard start issue still

 

When i prime it a few times, it still takes a some cranks to get it started and when it starts its still all sputtering until I rev the throttle then the fitv takes over and it idles fine.

It was pretty strange as well. The other day when I was driving in the highway, I usually just cruise around 65-70mph in 5th gear. It was driving fine until midway home, it started making a weird noise. Like bogging. Hard to explain the noise but it sounded deep and basically not good. When I tryed giving it some gas it didn't budge just sounded louder (bogging). I threw it on 4th gear and it did the same until I gave it a gas then it would jump out of it. It did all the way till I exited the highway turned it off, turned it back on and it didn't do it again. It just feels as if its getting held back, no popping at all just very deep strange noise

These 1st generation b16's are a pain in the *** haha.

I think it may be due for a rebuild and diagnostic. If anybody experienced these problems, any advice is greatly appreciated

And I replaced the fuel filter not too long ago btw. I say about a year ago

 

You have to remember, the first gen b16a's and your car are now 20 years old. There are going to be a few issues here and there.


Alot of the running issues on these earlier engine tend to be ignition(distributor) related.

 

Yeah I was figuring so as well. I think it is still possible to get this car back to as if it drove brand new. With a little time, money and effort.

It is still obd0, as well as the distributor which is basically stock distributor. But I already bought the obd1 conversion harnesses, ecu and distributor + adapter. Just don't know how to exactly install by myself so looking for a good labor deal, unless i grow a pair and chance it.

The car seems to be doing fine, other than the rack and pinion blown, and having to swap a LS transmission (due to budget) which basically slowed it down, and then I hear I'm suppose to have it tuned to the transmission. So now I'm trying to resurrect the old b16 S1 transmission, just need a 3rd/4th synchronizer sleeve, and the 3rd/4th shift fork. But thats a bitch to find cause its JDM.

I suppose with a little patience, I'll get this car to tip top shape, then it will be ready for mods. And when that time comes, I will either keep it garaged most of the time or sell it due to the stress of worrying if it will still be outside next morning. haha.

 

Did you do the swap recently? The bogging could be because of the Two O2 Sensors swapped around. C8 and C16 are the pins on the ECU. Unless you don't have one of them hooked up then this could be the problem too.

 

by cold do you mean only the engine is cold or when its cold outside or both

 

Negative. The swap was done a few years back. It actually is running good for its age I'm just pretty picky. But you don't have to be picky at all to notice the sudden bog on the highway.

It hasn't done it since, but it has happened a few times before. The car runs totally fine on public roads, and highways and etc.

|||||But on the highway when I keep it still and cruising 70 mph in 5th gear, only once in a blue moon does it have the symptom, and no it does not do it once I get on the highway, it happens after awhile of being on the highway.||||||

And what I mean by cold start is cold start in general, basically the car hasn't runned to the point where it completely cools off. Weather doesn't effect this.

 

so did you ever solve the cold start issue? I;m currently haveing the same issue right now and would GREATLY appreciate the help... thanks

 

your sudden bog once in a blue moon while traveling at speed...i have this issue too.
when it happens, let off the gas and coast in neutral for about 20 sec. bet you the problem fixes itself. you can also shut off the car and restart.
not sure why, but i think it's TPS sensor related. if you floor it the power comes back but will disappear when you go a steady speed.
if you have an AF ratio gauge, you'll see the gas drop off when the problem happens. when you let it idle, gas will come back, drop off, then come back and stay. very strange and random. my car is perfect most of the time and i've already replaced the distributor and tps sensor

 

No I haven't solved it. Its a real pain in the ***. Because cold starts is the most wear you can do to your engine supposively. I'm sure them shitty cold starts don't help either.

I'm thinking its definately a problem with the 1st generation b16's when they get a little older and used. I have a feeling even if I put money on rebuilding and resealing the engine and the fuel system I will still have that problem.

Other than that, zrickety is right. My engine runs fine and top notch besides its getting old. I still do get those blue moon bogs. And he is also right, I can just turn off the car and turn it back on and it will get rid of it.

I also noticed when its raining and I run over puddles of water, the engine does often get boggy (I do have wheel well rain covers). I'm guessing its a water, moisture issue most likely dealing with the wires and sensors. And probably from driving too long (Heat and resistance in the wires)

I'm planning to do another swap in it soon. Planning to get ready for repaint and make it look all nice as well. I'm just wondering if I'll keep it stock or go forced induction or all motor. I'll figure it out I suppose.

 

Don't say it is a first generation B16 problem. I have owned quite a few and I have NEVER experienced what you are talking about because of the technology. It was either the O2s were backwards, TPS, fuel pump going bad/clogged filters, coolant temperature sensor, or something else of that nature.

 

i have a 97 coupe ex with a jdm b16a i believe its also the obd0 one. the guy who had it before me changed the engine wiring harness from obd0 to obd2. i am throwing codes for ect and iat sensors. i have that same cold start problem. ive read alot on it and they say a bad ect sensor is the problem but i cant even locate the ect? lol i dunno let me know if you figured your problem out.

 

My b16 bogs on the highway every blue moon as well. Has anyone figured this problem out? I noticed my o2 sensors arent plugged in to anything...