I put a 5stud brake conversion off a integra type r on to a civic DOHC vtec which already had disc's on the rear so everything was pretty much bolt off and bolt on but I can not get a good brake pedal no matter how much I bleed it, I have even changed the brake master cylinder as I taught the seals inside might be worn. When bleeding after pumping up the pedal i get a stiff pedal but if I leave it for like 5minutes and push the pedal again its gone soft and as soon as I start the car its soft straight away. Anyone any idea what could be wrong?

 

Check valve on your booster, or your booster is leaking internally. Why did you think the seals in your master were bad?

 

Some one told me that the seals can get damaged in the master cylinder by using the bleeding method of pumping the brake pedal till hard and then opening the bleed nipple on the calliper and then pushing the brake pedal to the floor and holding till bleed nipple closed. So I changed that and no luck. I taught the brake booster only came in to play when the car is running? Im getting a soft pedal when the car is off aswell as on!

 

Your not supposed to pump the pedal then open the bleed, although a lot of people do it. It basically sloshes the fluid around and creates many small bubbles. Push pedal down once, then open bleeder.

 

but after you open the bleeder and close it the pedal goes soft, is it not ok to pump it up and depress while bleed nipple open?

 

Im not following. if the brake pedal is depressed and the bleeder is open, you cant take your foot off the pedal or you will cause air to enter into the system. Only time you can pump the brake pedal with the bleeder open is if you have some sort of bleeding assist like a vacuum bleeder or easy bleed.

 

If your losing pressure, what you could do is block off pressure going to the caliper at all your lines. They make brake hose crimping tools but if you dont have access to one, you can use a set of vice grip, but you have to cover the teeth to keep from damaging you hoses. A lot of guys will put rubber vacuum hoses over the teeth. Once you crimp all the hoses push on the pedal, if it sinks, you have a problem internally in your master.

 

What I meant is that I pump the pedal till it feels hard then have my foot up off the pedal and open the bleed screw and then I fully depress the brake pedal and leave it depressed till the bleed screw is closed again. I changed the master cylinder so I think I can eliminate that from been the problem. Would it be possible if a caliper piston seal was bad it would cause the problem? Also do you know should there be a washer inside and outside the banjoe type fitting that you attach your brake hose to the caliper with?

 

Yes, it is essential. Pump up your pedal with the car off. Wait for an unassisted brake (hard pedal). Hold the pedal down and start the car. If the booster is working properly, the pedal should sink a little bit. If it stays, you've got a bad booster.

 

i have the same problem except mine is worse. i've gone through 3 different booster/master cylinders, and bled like 2 liters of brake fluid (correctly). the brake pedal sinks all the way to the floor when the car is on or off. i tried driving it, and when i floor the brakes, the car brakes just a little bit. I've checked for leaks in all the lines, but nothing.

any light that can be shed would be much appreciated!

 

have you checked all the fittings for leaks?

With the MC replaced it will take alot more bleeding to stiffen it all up...

You can bench bleed MC's.

Check all the fittings arent needed and yes be sure you have copper washers on all the banjo fittings! You should never re-use these washers once you remove the banjo aswell.. They are cheap to replace anyway.

I'd give it another bleed after that, be sure you are bleeding it correctly.

 

You are bleeding your brakes wrong!

Pump a few times> HOLD to floor> while holding have someone open bleeder valve and let out air/fluid> close bleeder valve>release peddle>repeat.

Bleed the brakes Right Rear, Left Front, Left Rear, Right Front.

 

I taught on the honda civic's you do the fronts first then rears when bleeding? How you describe the bleeding process is exactly what im doing, just maybe I wasn't so good at explaining it.

 

i'm actually having the same issue with my teg as well..i replaced both rear calipers and only bled the rear calipers and my pedal is soft..do i need to bleed the front calipers as well?..sorry to thread jack

 

Yeah I think it would be best to bleed the lot as AFAIK the back left wheel works in conjunction with the front right and the back right with front left

 

What is it, make up your mind...
DO NOT take your foot off the pedal, HOLD it and open the bleed screw.

 

Ok I think I have the "how to bleed" bit sorted. I'm gonna get some new crush washers off honda for the caliper's as when I got them there was only one crush washer per caliper and it shows in the service manual that there should be two, one either side of the banjoe fitting. hopefully this will sort the problem. I will give update when I get the bits fitted. Anyone know what the allen key nut is on the MC in the middle between where you attach both brake lines to it?

 

Yeah, you need both washers for sure! You are going to need to replace the ones you already used as well. So 4 for the front is what you need if you only did the front.

 

White Smoke is correct. Dont just replace the missing washers, you need all new ones for any banjo that was removed.

 

i just double checking my self here (not saying your wrong). . i was always told you bleed the wheel fartherest away from the mc first ; to the closest. so shouldn't it be rr, lr, lf, rf?

 

yes you should

 

That is correct.

VTEC6200,

Please re-bleed your brake system with the information you've gained from this thread and let us know how it goes.

If the pedal still feels mushy after the bleed job here's a couple questions for you:

Have you upgraded to an integra M/C + booster? or are you using your factory civic mc/booster?

If you're reusing your civic MC/booster what year and model is your civic?

 

Im using the standard civic booster and MC. The civic is the european version "civic vti" or in Japan called civic SIR. It already had disc brakes all round so I assumed the MC and booster would be fine to use. Perhaps the integra MC and booster would be better. Is it a straight swap on to the civic?

 

Oh thats right, you already had disc brakes before.

Does your car have ABS? if so, then you'll already have an integra mc/booster (all civics w/disc brakes and ABS are integra brakes). If no ABS, then you probably have the weak little civic mc/booster.

You can swap an integra MC/booster over, but the thing to look out for is the hard line placement into the MC. You want to get the same MC that looks like the one you already have (has the same hard line hole locations) otherwise you'll have to bend and flare your existing hardline to accomodate the different hard line mounting locations on the other type of MC's integra's have.

Think you can take a pic of your existing MC/booster for us? I could tell right away if you have an integra or civic style mc/booster setup.

Also, take a look on the side of your MC and tell me if you can see the embossed number on the side. Should either be 13/16, 15/16, or 1.

But I say rebleed your system first and see if that clears up the soft pedal feel before jumping into changing your mc/booster setup..

 

Not always. Many cars have differing bleeding procedures. What year and model is your car, OP?