So I brought my car to the dyno tonight. This would be my first time to tune on the dyno. My number seem very low for what my setup should ballpark.

I had a tuner friend helping me do it. Basically him just watching and giving me pointers/ideas. He is a pretty good ls1 tuner (owned his own shop) and been at it for 4 years or so..

Heres my Setup:
b16 head
b18c1 block/crank
p30 pistons
endyn bump stick cams (similar to jun3)
skunk2 pro intake
68mm tb
jdm itr header w/2.5 collector
3" short ram with velocity stack
1000cc injectors (yeah I know)
b16 tranny
s300
NGK bkr7e plugs gapped to .30

So we get in on the dyno and smooth out the afr's and the car is only putting down 150's So he says to crank the timing some. So we go in an add a few degrees from vtec point up (roughly 4 degrees). So I run again and its about the same gained a few hp. Next we change camgear setting. Advanced the intake 3 to start and retarded the ex 2-3. HP jumps to 162hp/118ft/lbs. So I crank down the timing some figuring maybe it would help. Lost Hp above 6500. So we play some more and cant figure anything out. We ended up with 160hp/120ftlbs. Seems like maybe the direct port jets are messing up airflow or something..

So at that point we did all we could. So I say to hell with it.. and hook up the nitrous. Car put down 246hp/180trq on a dp 100 shot. Still need to smooth afr's under nitrous but it just seems low for this setup.

I was looking for 170-190's on motor. What could kill it that bad? This is a healthy car and went 12.40's on the nitrous. That was before the tune & separate fuel system for the n20 w/racegas .

Will post dyno later


Modified by SilverEk3dr at 4:45 AM 11/14/2008

 

http://bbmoto.net/wiki/index.p...atter

 

Where did you set the cams initially? Was the head milled?

 

No headwork at all. Cams were 0,0 initially.. Picked up 8 hp by advancing the intake to 3, exhaust 0




Modified by SilverEk3dr at 9:51 PM 11/14/2008

 

your graph is too choppy for being at a 5 smoothing level. What engine management are you using?

 

s300 w/aem wideband

 

can you send me your calibration? i'd like to see what your final (actual) ignition timing is.

blakesvtec(at) yahoo.com

 

I started with the itr (stock) map on the s300 and bumped the timing up alot. highest is 36*


Gonna be a while. Im having some serious trouble trying to send the map to u


Modified by SilverEk3dr at 12:10 AM 11/15/2008

 

I would recommend doing a compression & leak down test.

1000cc injectors are not helping you with proper fuel atomization.
A stock b16 makes about 150whp/110wht


Modified by mtber at 10:54 AM 11/15/2008

 

Wow. Did you sync the ignition timing? What distributor are you using? OEM Honda, NAPA, Distributor King or ... ? Double checked all grounds? Something is definately going on. Like 98vtec said. The graph is way too choppy to be at five (5) smoothing

 

Yes. Ignition timing was sync'd to 16*

Im running an oem dist as far as i know. All grounds are in place.

I figured somthing was off. Not sure the injectors would hurt that bad. The tuner and i figured it was the direct port jets sticking into the intake runners that was hurting it. I didnt think it would be this drastic though.

 

Cams are too big for that set up. Stock or ITR cams would suit your needs better

 

11.3c/r (calculated) is too small?

I've seen ppl run similar cams on stock c/r cars. Hell my h22 made 192whp on skunk stage 2 with stock c/r.

 

....

 

Ok did a compression test

#1 #2 #3 #4
220 245 275 280

So number one is low. I started the car and let it run for a few minutes before I did the test. Maybe shoulda let it warm all the way up..

98vtec.. Map coming your way..



Modified by SilverEk3dr at 5:24 PM 11/15/2008

 

36 degrees is way to high for a setup like this...most stock compression and cammed setups like the 30 area.

A more efficient, higher compression, bigger cam setup *should* want less timing generally...

Also, you are shooting in the dark making cam degree changes blindly. The motor should be degreed...

The comp test doesnt look good, next step is a leak down test to figure out where your issue is.

Post pics of the plugs (all 4) in order as well if you can.

 

well you ignition up top was all crossed up (the 2d lines), but thats not what is causing the problem. Its almost looking like detonation or a bad pickup from the dyno. Usually on the ignition timing side the graph will climb and then start to flatten out once you hit MBT but you have the ignition timing climbing and never stopping to climb.

what gear were these pulls in? What IAT's were you pulling on the dyno? ECT should have been around 190-200 yes?

And i cant find whether or not you are running the stock honda ignition advance or not...i thought s300 was able to turn it off of limit it above a certain load. If you haven't turned it off and really the only timing retard i see is 0 to -3.00 being interpolated between 100* and 140* IAT then you timing is pretty damn high for 11.3 without having pulled some tricks with individual cylinder trims.

Did you make a pass and shut the engine down to inspect the plugs? Its very likely that your engine is seeing way over 40* timing at peak and close to 40 at vtec which is a pretty damn good amount of timing.

 

Plugs all looked the same. Or course that was after the nitrous pull. I needed to pull a couple degrees more timing cause the ground straps got a little hot but they are nice and clean.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well you ignition up top was all crossed up (the 2d lines), but thats not what is causing the problem. Its almost looking like detonation or a bad pickup from the dyno. Usually on the ignition timing side the graph will climb and then start to flatten out once you hit MBT but you have the ignition timing climbing and never stopping to climb.

what gear were these pulls in? What IAT's were you pulling on the dyno? ECT should have been around 190-200 yes?

And i cant find whether or not you are running the stock honda ignition advance or not...i thought s300 was able to turn it off of limit it above a certain load. If you haven't turned it off and really the only timing retard i see is 0 to -3.00 being interpolated between 100* and 140* IAT then you timing is pretty damn high for 11.3 without having pulled some tricks with individual cylinder trims.

Did you make a pass and shut the engine down to inspect the plugs? Its very likely that your engine is seeing way over 40* timing at peak and close to 40 at vtec which is a pretty damn good amount of timing</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ect was 199
IAT was between 110 and 100 by the end
all pulls were in 4th
By the datalog it says im running 30-31* timing

Want to see my datalog?

[


Modified by SilverEk3dr at 5:44 PM 11/15/2008

 

yes i do. Please send me that as well.

 

Email sent

 

holy crap that is a lot of timing. Too much timing can not only be causing detonation, but also hurting your power.

 

I just thought about it and I did have a couple gallons of 110 octane mixed in with my 93. So that may have been helping.

The datalog shows 30-31* at the highest point.

 

Next time you are at the dyno, i would try removing 10+* from the WOT map and see what happens. Then slowly add if it lost a lot of power. Gotta try and test it.

 

Also check your fuel pressure. Different types of injectors like different fuel pressures. If you run too high of a fuel pressure with a {pintle,ball+seat} injector, you'll find fuel atomization goes to **** and so does your power. The RC lucas discs are more tolerant of higher fuel pressures, but their atomization is icky to start with...

no less than 32, no more than 45 psi.

 

Ok. Im gonna find out why my compression is low and then bring it back in a week or two and I will post results. Thanks