Alright, so my rebuild is finally beginning and I need a little insight. I've searched, but I don't feel the answers I've found have fully covered my questions...

I'm planning on getting about 300 WHP by the end of all of this... so I need some correct info before I mess it all up haha

**I have a pretty decent idea for setup, everything internally is going to be replaced, right down to the freeze plugs...**

First, is the head, block, and sleeves of my B18C1 aluminum?

Second, if they are aluminum, how much boost will I be able to safely run without warping/cracking internals on stock sleeves with JE pistons and Eagle rods?

Third, Will I be okay just re-sleeving if I need to do that, or should I invest in a DART setup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sh4mr0ck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright, so my rebuild is finally beginning and I need a little insight. I've searched, but I don't feel the answers I've found have fully covered my questions...

I'm planning on getting about 300 WHP by the end of all of this... so I need some correct info before I mess it all up haha

**I have a pretty decent idea for setup, everything internally is going to be replaced, right down to the freeze plugs...**

First, is the head, block, and sleeves of my B18C1 aluminum?

Second, if they are aluminum, how much boost will I be able to safely run without warping/cracking internals on stock sleeves with JE pistons and Eagle rods?

Third, Will I be okay just re-sleeving if I need to do that, or should I invest in a DART setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dart block is a waste of money, in your case. No need to sleeve for 300 whp.

The OEM sleeves are cast, with JE Pistons & Eagle rods, your motor will reliably support 350-450 whp. CFM has more of an affect on power than PSI. Some make more power, but keep it simple if this is you first build.

 

All you need to make 300whp is a turbo setup. The stock longblock will do just fine. For instance, i made 315whp on my stock block GSR for 2 years without issue.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoTexDC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Dart block is a waste of money, in your case. No need to sleeve for 300 whp.

The OEM sleeves are cast, with JE Pistons & Eagle rods, your motor will reliably support 350-450 whp. CFM has more of an affect on power than PSI. Some make more power, but keep it simple if this is you first build. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure the pistons and rods will support 450 whp, but will stock gsr sleeves handle that much power? I've seen several of my friends running 330-350 whp but nothing higher than that. And that's because very reputable tuners told them that was the safe limit for stock sleeves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruffrhyder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sure the pistons and rods will support 450 whp, but will stock gsr sleeves handle that much power? I've seen several of my friends running 330-350 whp but nothing higher than that. And that's because very reputable tuners told them that was the safe limit for stock sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock sleeves will make 450whp with relative ease. Its when you start pushing the 500-550whp range that you start worrying. As for the tuners who wont tune that high, i've made 315whp on a stock bottom end like i said above. There are several people in the mid to upper 400s on stock bottom ends...never mind stock sleeves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruffrhyder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sure the pistons and rods will support 450 whp, but will stock gsr sleeves handle that much power? I've seen several of my friends running 330-350 whp but nothing higher than that. And that's because very reputable tuners told them that was the safe limit for stock sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, Schister66 speaks the truth.

Personally, I always advise people to limit the stock block around the 300whp level. Add forged pistons & rods, and limit yourself to 450whp, which is more than enough for a street car. Anything above and sleeve your block. When you near the 700whp level it's time to use custom pistons & wristpins.

For people building a drag car, I always recommend sleeving the block from the start, because the power desire's will exceed the stock block's capability's very quick.

There is always a risk factor when your increasing power levels. Using forged pistons and rods, and sleeving your block will reduce that risk in the event that your tuner makes an error, but is not necessary. The biggest thing I can stress is know your tuner, be SURE they are reputable and experienced. Don't judge that by only your friends experience either. A bad tune can ruin your entire motor, regardless of how much you spend on preventive measures.

 

It isn't my true first build...

I raced quad MX for four years and sprint cars for two years... I've spent many nights up late in a shop inside an engine

I have plent of experience, so I'm not worried about this project... I'm also doing a full rebuild just to make sure EVERYTHING is covered before i have to waste more time replacing parts, it's kind of a matter of efficiency on my part...

Stock sleeves will hold the boost without warping anything? Also remember, this GSR was my DD, and will still be my cruiser, so it isn't going to be garage kept... uhh... ever... it'll be driven probably every night or at least every weekend.

Still no warping? 300 WHP, looking to break 12's on the quarter, sound right? I'm honestly not that concerned about my drag times... I just want the engine done right... haha

 

"Problems" with the stock sleeves will be dependant on your tuning. The stock sleeves "can" hold that much power without a problem if you have a good tune. Aftermarket sleeves can hold it regardless. Also, to clarify, the stock sleeves are half aluminum and half steel. The aluminum half is cast with the block and the steel portion is pressed in....obviously for strength and wear characteristics. 300whp and 12s is possible, however I find it unlikely unless you have a good suspension setup and probably some weight modifications.....and slicks will help alot too.

 

Yeah, suspension is already taken care of, but I'm going to replace it all again this winter. Weight is no problem either as everything that's unneeded is taken out and I'm keeping is clean with the custom fabrication.

I'll be posting pictures of the car as everything starts to unwrap.

 

In the end I'm hoping to have everything shaved pretty well, as well.. Body work and paint is another main focus, I really want to go with frost white, although I'm a fan of the current Milano red.

Here's a question: Type R wing, stock GSR wing, or no wing? (All three look good, but I personally think no wing looks smooth and clean)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruffrhyder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sure the pistons and rods will support 450 whp, but will stock gsr sleeves handle that much power? I've seen several of my friends running 330-350 whp but nothing higher than that. And that's because very reputable tuners told them that was the safe limit for stock sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ive seen stock motor push damn near 700

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ive seen stock motor push damn near 700</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea and how long did it last?

Not doubting you, just saying... This guy obviously wants a car to last more than a few runs.

Since you are going to drag race the car, and already anticipated spending the money, at least use forged pistons & rods, and build a reliable 450whp car that will achieve your goals easily.

 

whatever you decide to do, do it right the first time lol doing things twice not only is a waste of time but your cash as well .... and you could always use more $$$$$$

 

a set of pistons and rods are good for 450hp all day long im putting a street motor togeather right now aiming for 400ish on pump and 500ish on race.....and all im using is stock sleeve ls block bored 20 over wiseco 9:1 pistons and eagle rods with the 2000 series arp rod bolts of course just make sure you have a good tuner and your golden

 

You're not going to warp a sleeve. Like i said, i made 315whp on a stock bottom end and now with a 9.8:1 built LS/VTEC (stock sleeves) i'm shooting for 450whp. I'm telling you, they'll hold.

Also, i sent you PM. Since you're local, i can probably help you out a bit...

 

I didn't even notice you were from Fargo! haha

You probably know me if you ever hang around Tintmasters or RevolutionZ!

I usually stick around the one in Forks, but when I head down to Fargo I try to have my fun hehe

Yeah, the motor has to stay reliable. In fact, I'd rather have reliability over 'UbER Fast Madd NOS hp Doood!'

Like I said, I'll be fully satisfied with 300 WHP, but I could go higher if I'm already there to do it...

 

Basically what I've concluded is that it will be entirely safe to run 300 WHP with stock sleeves, and I can actually run up to 450 WHP with stock sleeves.

My piston and rod setup will be good for this setup.

And also, reliability will not be an issue for 300-450 WHP.

Thank you for your help!

 

IF your tune is solid....keep that in mind

 

Tune will be solid, after rebuild ill do the 300 and 1000 mile break in/oil changes, then drive it down to Minneapolis to have it tuned on dyno...

What ECU would you suggest?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sh4mr0ck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tune will be solid, after rebuild ill do the 300 and 1000 mile break in/oil changes, then drive it down to Minneapolis to have it tuned on dyno...

What ECU would you suggest?</TD></TR></TABLE>

whatever fits your bill...you can tune right away just FYI...sounds like you need to do more research PERIOD...

 

Well I was thinking of doing Chrome because theres mixed emotions about Hondata... So... I don't know...

Just for peace of mind, I'd rather have the engine broken in before tuning.. personal feeling I guess...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sh4mr0ck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well I was thinking of doing Chrome because theres mixed emotions about Hondata... So... I don't know...

Just for peace of mind, I'd rather have the engine broken in before tuning.. personal feeling I guess... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Umm there are more mixed feelings about Crome.

The best affordable tuning solutions IMO are Neptune and Hondata. Crome is a viable option, but still has its qwerks. Find a good tuner that you plan to use, and ask them what they feel the most comfortable with. Make sure they understand your setup.

After my build, I changed the oil after initial startup. I drove about 20 miles, changed it again. Then I changed at 100, 200, 500, and 1000. I used non detergent oil until the 1000 mile mark, then went with synthetic. Regardless, if your changing compression you need to tune it immediately. Running too rich on a freshly built motor can cause the rings to never seat properly.

 

I never even thought of the compression. Thanks!

I plan to run synthetic from the start.. Eneos or Royal Purple... most likely Eneos 5w-30.

I'll get ahold of the tuner before I purchase anything ECU to see what they work best with...

 

i give up...you dont know what your talking about...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i give up...you dont know what your talking about...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure why you think I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm fully rebuilding my engine. EVERYTHING. I'm boosting. I need to tune afterwards. I don't think I should run a stock ECU.

So, that being said, after eveything is put back together and there's oil in the engine and coolant in the radiator, I have two choices. Break in, or tune.

Either way, I need an ECU. What am I missing that suggests I don't know anything?